do you use replaygain to avoid clipping loudness audio file?

[Mantra]

hi
somedays ago i was looking for audiophile albums , and in the list there is Lorde 's Melodrama
i don't know if the list is related to cds or vinyls (just because in vinyls I guess they could not make play too loud )
well since I own Lorde 's Melodrama cd , I have ripped in flac with dbpoweramp and exact audio copy
I have used audiolab 9000a , marantz model 30 and different speakers like Totem ,Kef and B&W , and they do sound too loud and almost clipping
I have used some '80 and '90 amps and they do sound much better

Well to listen decently outside the Dac (i mean i have used more than 1 ), I have lower the player volume foobar2000 , musicbee , maybe jriver media center could it wihout lower the volume maybe it features a Loudness compensation

at the end , I have used the replaygain and they sound not so loud and not compressed

well have you noticed it?
do you use replaygain to avoid an execessive compression and loudness some cds ripped in flac ?
might you please share your opition ?
do you use only replaygain or something else?
thanks

hope i was enough clear , english is not my native language
a screenshot ,considered an audiophile album , ripped in flac

 

[Vincent Kars]

Replaygain is simply digital volume control. If you apply it at track level, all tracks will more or less sounds equally loud.
As it is volume control, it can't do anything about digital clipping (the recording is simply to hot) or dynamic compression.

 

[Mantra]

Replaygain is simply digital volume control. If you apply it at track level, all tracks will more or less sounds equally loud.
As it is volume control, it can't do anything about digital clipping (the recording is simply to hot) or dynamic compression.

Hi Vincent
have you watched the screenshot ,it's the first track of Lorde 's Melodrama , european press ?
does it look dynamic compression to you?
have you notice that some cds ripped or original could sound badly without replaygain ?
I found the replaygain the only way to play better and not clipped or compressed
thanks

 

[DVDdoug]

I use it for volume matching.

Like Vencent says, it doesn't change the wave shape or the dynamics.

If you have a format that can go over 0dB without clipping (like MP3) ReplayGain CAN prevent clipping of the DAC.

You can't perfectly reverse compression, limiting, or clipping (for a couple of reasons) but in some cases you might be able to make an improvement.

There are "de-clipping" or "unlimiting" effects. These are normally used with an audio editor or DAW, not in real-time during playback. Audacity has one called Clip-Fix. When I tried it a couple of times it made the waveform look better but it didn't improve the sound, at least not noticeably. (These were CDs that sounded distorted to me.)

Or, GoldWave (another audio editor) has a compressor/expander effect. I haven't played-around with it that much but if you try i,t they sometimes confuse the terms "compression" and "expansion". There is a preset for "Boost Loud Parts". That correctly shows-up as expansion. But "Reduce Quiet Parts" is also expansion and it incorrectly shows-up as compression. If you start-out with one of the presets and play-around from there then you'll get what you want. GoldWave isn't free, but there is a fully-functional free trial.


BTW - Audacity can "Show Clipping", but it's just looking at the levels and warning you of potential clipping. It's not analyzing the wave shape. You can get false-negatives (lowering the volume will "hide" the clipping") and since Audacity can go over 0dB internally you can also get false positives.

 

[Geert]

I use ReplayGain for a few of my albums that are extremely loud, just to make sure I don't jump out of my chair when one of these songs passes by automatically in a playlist.

 

[Mantra]

I use it for volume matching.

Like Vencent says, it doesn't change the wave shape or the dynamics.

If you have a format that can go over 0dB without clipping (like MP3) ReplayGain CAN prevent clipping of the DAC.

Hi
i know i have used to play to match volume , but several albums with dynamic compression do sound better for my ears
i was just asking
thanks

I use ReplayGain for a few of my albums that are extremely loud, just to make sure I don't jump out of my share when one of these songs passes by automatically in a playlist.

Hi
have you Lorde 's Melodrama ?
i have upload a screenshot , it does sound saturated with several amps and speakers
only with the replaygain , it does sound better for my ears
in short , you have no problems listaning very loud and compressed album
it's the amp , the dac , the speakers ,or is the recording in my case ripped correclty?
thanks

 

[Geert]

Hi
have you Lorde 's Melodrama ?

No, but I have for example 'Solange Knowles - Seat at the table', or the albums of London Grammar.

in short , you have no problems listaning very loud and compressed album
it's the amp , the dac , the speakers ,or is the recording in my case ripped correclty?

Yes I have a problem with it, but what do you do if you appreciate the music?

There's nothing wrong with your ripped version, that waveform is what pop music looks like these days. Google 'loudness war'.

 

[Vincent Kars]

I found the replaygain the only way to play better and not clipped or compressed

Have a look at your own screen shot.
Now apply replaygain (or R128 as Replaygain is a bit dated)
Have a look at the new track.
Does it look different?
Of course not, what ReplayGain does is writing a value to a tag, say -3.25 to play it at a bit lower.
That is all it does .

 

[tmtomh]

If you use ReplayGain to make all your albums have the same average/RMS level - and if so I strongly recommend you use it in album mode so it preserves the intended volume differences among tracks within the same album - then there is one potential benefit. If you set the ReplayGain level so that albums that that Lorde one are attenuated by 2-3dB, then if your DAC clips on intersample overs when converting the digital signal to an analogue waveform, you could reduce or eliminate that analogue clipping.

 

[Mantra]

Have a look at your own screen shot.
Now apply replaygain (or R128 as Replaygain is a bit dated)
Have a look at the new track.
Does it look different?
Of course not, what ReplayGain does is writing a value to a tag, say -3.25 to play it at a bit lower.
That is all it does .

Hi
i remember a website with many cds rated by quality recording like Dynamic Range: 12 and so on
i have forgot it ,but it was sorted by different data
I guess it's this database
thanks

If you set the ReplayGain level so that albums that that Lorde one are attenuated by 2-3dB, then if your DAC clips on intersample overs when converting the digital signal to an analogue waveform, you could reduce or eliminate that analogue clipping.

Hi
may i know how can set the replaygain attenuated by 2-3dB in foobar or musicbee or jriver media ?
are you talking about foo_dsp_amp or preamp foobar?
have you some screenshots ?
thanks

No, but I have for example 'Solange Knowles - Seat at the table', or the albums of London Grammar.



Yes I have a problem with it, but what do you do if you appreciate the music?

There's nothing wrong with your ripped version, that waveform is what pop music looks like these days. Google 'loudness war'.

hi
have you noticed that old amps do suffer less ?
i mean '80 or '90 amps

 

[markstein]

One benefit when using volume normalization will be to avoid intersample clipping with very loud mastered music.

 

[Geert]

have you noticed that old amps do suffer less ?
i mean '80 or '90 amps

I never had an amp that had a problem with it. I can only imagine it to be a problem when you drive the amp close to maximum output power, and it's the type of amp that can't sustain high average output levels.

 

[DVDdoug]

P.S.
I just remembered something -

ReplayGain has a "prevent clipping" option (which should be the default).

What it does is, it prevents ReplayGain itself from causing clipping.

For example, if you have a quiet-sounding track that needs to be boosted by +6dB to hit the loudness target, but it only has 1dB of headroom, ReplayGain will only boost by +1dB. Or if you have a quiet sounding track with no headroom it won't do anything.

have you noticed that old amps do suffer less ?
i mean '80 or '90 amps

Amplifiers?

You can have digital clipping without analog clipping, or analog clipping without digital clipping so they aren't really related.

If you drive an amplifier into clipping, that's a "bad kind" of dynamic compression (or a bad kind of limiting, which is also a kind of dynamic compression). Otherwise, amplifiers are linear and they don't affect the dynamics.

Some amplifiers "soft clip" when over-driven into distortion and some "hard clip". Or, some can sustain higher power for short-term peaks and then they start clipping if the high-power requirements are sustained.

A newer amplifier is likely to have more power so you are less likely to over-drive it into clipping. And if you have a very-old tube amplifier it probably tends to soft-clip.

 

[Mantra]

I never had an amp that had a problem with it. I can only imagine it to be a problem when you drive the amp close to maximum output power, and it's the type of amp that can't sustain high average output levels.

Hi Geert
I mean I guess the old amps haven't an internal dac and they were able to handle much better , I guess the new are more inclined to enfatizzate some dynamic compression , the audiolab 9000a , marantz model 30 well they sound worse for my ears same speakers same dac, the old 1990 marantz or other brands ,seems they can attenuate much better

P.S.
I just remembered something -

ReplayGain has a "prevent clipping" option (which should be the default).

What it does is, it prevents ReplayGain itself from causing clipping.

For example, if you have a quiet-sounding track that needs to be boosted by +6dB to hit the loudness target, but it only has 1dB of headroom, ReplayGain will only boost by +1dB. Or if you have a quiet sounding track with no headroom it won't do anything.

Hi DVDdoug
I have these settings , i have tried bits to 32 ,same dac same laptop ,but windows 11 give me playback (i really don't know why) with foobar , windows 10 or 7 on the same machine don't give me any errors
I use these settings ,do you think is much better "prevent clipping according the peak" -> they do sound pretty loud
about preamp i have set to 0
are they correct?

Amplifiers?

You can have digital clipping without analog clipping, or analog clipping without digital clipping so they aren't really related.

same brands , same volume , very low
the new amps seems to seems they can attenuate much better , maybe becaue they had an old dac or even they haven't , i have tried the '70 pioneer ,luxmann
but some cds like dark side of the moon ,or even blood sugar sex magic (non remastered) they do sound so great with the new amps without replaygain
thanks

 

[Mantra]

hi
now i got why many users do still like play vinyls
I could played the same album ,cd vs vinyl and the lp dynamic range is so different ,and it does sound much better for my ears
i'm not talking about all the cds but some of them
i'm thinking to buy a vinyl player with usb just to record to my computer or just some gear and use a vinyl player without usb but some gear to rip them
by the way i wanted to try Perfect Declipper (it's not free and no more updated ) and it does work pretty well ,in real time , it does a great job ,but it does cost 100€ , stereo tool is really expansive

 

[solderdude]

I could played the same album ,cd vs vinyl and the lp dynamic range is so different ,and it does sound much better for my ears

Different mastering (specifically for vinyl), different frequency response (cartridge, per-amp) is the main reason for this.
The lathe also changes some properties (bass and transients) so a needle won't jump out of the groove.

Some folks enjoy vinyl more because of those reasons.

Better to use a 'normal' turntable and external ADC than the USB turntables with built-in ADC. Only the expensive USB ones might be decent.

 

[somebodyelse]

Better to use a 'normal' turntable and external ADC than the USB turntables with built-in ADC. Only the expensive USB ones might be decent.

That's what I would expect, but haven't seen any measurements of USB turntables to confirm or deny.

 

[Mantra]

Different mastering (specifically for vinyl), different frequency response (cartridge, per-amp) is the main reason for this.
The lathe also changes some properties (bass and transients) so a needle won't jump out of the groove.

Some folks enjoy vinyl more because of those reasons.

Better to use a 'normal' turntable and external ADC than the USB turntables with built-in ADC. Only the expensive USB ones might be decent.

That's what I would expect, but haven't seen any measurements of USB turntables to confirm or deny.

Hi
lots are telling to buy one with usb other without ..
but can I ask you do use some plugin like Perfect Declipper ?
is there a good one 100% free declipper plugin ?
thanks

 

[solderdude]

A de-clipper can only try to guess what a peak level might have been prior to being clipped.
It will not address dynamic compression, but you will get better DR numbers simply because of the relatively increased peaks so it's like 'een sigaar uit eigen doos'.

There is no English saying that is comparable but in essence it means: “’that’s one of our own cigars’; they’re pretending to be generous but their gift is one we paid for ourselves”
So ... it looks like the declipper is a true blessing and DR meter confirms but in essence the declipper just lowers the overall level and tries to guess what might have been.
The sound remains the same, compression as well but nasty clips might just sound a little better.

I have used declippers a few time and they seem to improve the sound a little.

 

[Mantra]

@solderdude @somebodyelse
Hi
is there a great tutorial about rip a lp in this forum or ?
I guess there are great software that can clean , click and something else ...just auto split tracks ..
I have only audacity and goldwave
thanks