do you play music at >100 dB or at 120 dB?

[ahofer]

I never witnessed such a thing myself. It's not like you can submit different files for the same track on Apple music.

I guess the hope is that they submit the better master and Apple converts the file as needed.

 

[danadam]

I'm very confused by this. [...] I never listen to music at home anywhere near those levels. So what is the point of having a DAC or amplifier with 120 dB of dynamic range if I never listen that loud?

Not sure what is confusing about it. 120 dB is just a number, that covers the whole range for human hearing. If you don't listen that loud, then obviously you don't need such DAC (assuming you don't need headroom for other stuff like EQ/DSP).

What about for headphones? I surely don't need headphones capable of 120 dB dynamic range?

With RME ADI-2 Pro + Sennheiser HD-650, Hi-Power off, volume at +1:

• 0 dBFS 20 Hz tone doesn't sound particularly loud (but still, probably not a good idea to listen to it for too long) [also, not sure how much of it is the actual 20 Hz and how much distortion )
• -110 dBFS 3 kHz tone is still audible

Admittedly, such pure tones are not something you find in a typical music piece
Even though I wouldn't listen to any contemporary pop/rock music at such volume, I don't see a problem with some classical, from time to time. But again I have to admit, that for me it would be equally good with 16 bit dither applied.

 

[kongwee]

I think I understand that. What I'm hearing from my sofa is not the same as the loudness coming out of the speaker because of distance. What about for headphones? I surely don't need headphones capable of 120 dB dynamic range?

I use earphone. It is good enough. Only use earphone outdoor. At home only on speaker.

 

[fricccolodics]

Dynamic range is not about absolute volume, it is the difference between the loudest volume and quietest volume in a piece of music.

Interestingly 120dB is also equivalent to 20 bits.

So if your music is 20 bits, the theoretical difference between the loudest and quitest signal that can be represented in that music is 120dB. So anything with less DR can effectively not deliver the full resolution of 20 bit recordings.

Now I'd argue that anything beyond 16 bits is probably inaudible - but hey, we also have 24bit available. So if we are going for that then we should also be looking for kit with enough DR to render it.



Note - this also means you can be listening with your SPL peaks at 60dB with 120dB dynamic range, putting your noise floor (at least from your DAC) at SPL -60dB

This is still misleading or misrepresenting the topic:
the human hearing threshold is defined as follows(from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absol...hreshold of hearing is,can detect at 1,000 Hz.):
"The threshold of hearing is generally reported as the RMS sound pressure of 20 micropascals, i.e. 0 dB SPL, corresponding to a sound intensity of 0.98 pW/m2 at 1 atmosphere and 25 °C.[3] It is approximately the quietest sound a young human with undamaged hearing can detect at 1,000 Hz.[4] The threshold of hearing is frequency-dependent and it has been shown that the ear's sensitivity is best at frequencies between 2 kHz and 5 kHz,[5] where the threshold reaches as low as −9 dB SPL.[6][7][8]"

So we cannot possibly hear anything below -9dB SPL.

Referenced to peak levels this means:
16bit CD-quality with a range of 96dB can be fully reproduced at a SPL of at least 87dB(for 2to 5kHZ)/ 96dB (for 1kHz)/ and dramatically higher SPL due to very low sensitivity of the human ear at bass and high frequencies
(cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range#/media/File:Hörfläche.svg)

Exposure to SPL above 85dB over a period of 8h /day is considered as damaging to your hearing capacities.
It follows:

SPL above 96dB over a period of 38 minutes /day is considered as damaging to your hearing capacities!
Not even the length of your average cd!
Note: if you do listen at higher SPL your hearing will be damaged and as a consequence you won't be able to hear fine details in music anyway!

NOTE: threshold of human hearing as quoted above refers to what a human ear can hear with NO other sound present.
My relatively quiet living room always has SPL of about 28dB to 30dB of basic noise, even the remotest concrete storage rooms at my work place or my granny's 200 year old massive cellar rooms 5m below the surface have at least SPL of 25dB.
Add that to the required minimum listening SPL for 16bit music and you are definitely in the earsplitting area!

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I have several posts on this and am a bit confused. I am trying to understand at a gut level ...so far... It is wizzing past me and I am an engineer...

Most here have an App capable of reading SPL. It has been proven that some smartphones APP/microphone combinations are pretty accurate.. At least for the purpose of eye-balling (ear-balling ) the Sound Pressure Level. I have brought my smartphone to classical music concerts and I have seen readings exceeding 105 dB at my seating position, I wasn't feeling any discomfort. I vaguely remember the average level to be around 80 dB ... could be wrong on that one... Thing is , at home I find 105 dB peaks painfully loud.
During the day , in the streets, SPL level on my smartphone is usually around 90 dB ... and above when those sirens go by or those motorcycles or those cars and ... Even in a car, I experience regular 90 dB or more... In planes? well.. they scream >90dB even in first class... Some planes are louder.. for hours.. 92~93 dB are not, pun intended , unheard of.
Now I listen usually for an average of 75~80 dB at home peaks are usually below 95 dB with the occasional 100 dB of pleasure . During the night when I have most of my serious sessions, noise floor is about 35 dB SPL...
I know some people claim to listen at an average of 60~70 dB. I find this low . unless some means are taken to compensate for the low sensitivity of the ear in the bass and treble, they surely are missing a lot.


Simple answers may suffice. What weighing does one use for evaluating SPL? In music, speech, Life? Is a smartphone with an App, enough? I use decibel Meter Pro on iOS..

Peace.

 

[Sgt. Ear Ache]

Apparently, if sound waves could travel through space, the Sun would sound like a motorcycle constantly revving at about 120dbs. That may not answer any of the questions in this thread...but I find it strangely fascinating.

 

[JSmith]

Apparently, if sound waves could travel through space, the Sun would sound like a motorcycle constantly revving at about 120dbs.

Interesting concept... this estimate is a little different;

Of course, the Earth is around 92 million miles from the sun, so the sound would be somewhat attenuated by the time it got here. DeForest pegs the sun’s din on Earth at around 100 decibels, a bit quieter than the speakers at a rock concert. That’s during the day, of course. At night, as we turn away from the sun, the roar would fade. Perhaps we might even be able to hold conversations.

The sound itself would be something like a dull roar, DeForest says, because the sound waves coming at us would be composed of so many different frequencies.

But to concoct a world where the sun is audible, we need to forget a few key things: The vacuum of space, of course, but also the fact that sound waves tend to steepen as they travel over long distances. This means that they will eventually break upon themselves and crash, much like ocean waves, DeForest says.

In this scenario, even if sound could travel through space, the waves wouldn’t even make it out of the sun’s corona, or atmosphere. Instead, they’d implode as shock waves, dissolving into heat.

What Would the Sun Sound Like If We Could Hear It On Earth?

A thought experiment explores the awesome power of our star.

www.discovermagazine.com

JSmith

 

[itz_all_about_the_music]

Hi

I have several posts on this and am a bit confused. I am trying to understand at a gut level ...so far... It is wizzing past me and I am an engineer...

Most here have an App capable of reading SPL. It has been proven that some smartphones APP/microphone combinations are pretty accurate.. At least for the purpose of eye-balling (ear-balling ) the Sound Pressure Level. I have brought my smartphone to classical music concerts and I have seen readings exceeding 105 dB at my seating position, I wasn't feeling any discomfort. I vaguely remember the average level to be around 80 dB ... could be wrong on that one... Thing is , at home I find 105 dB peaks painfully loud.
During the day , in the streets, SPL level on my smartphone is usually around 90 dB ... and above when those sirens go by or those motorcycles or those cars and ... Even in a car, I experience regular 90 dB or more... In planes? well.. they scream >90dB even in first class... Some planes are louder.. for hours.. 92~93 dB are not, pun intended , unheard of.
Now I listen usually for an average of 75~80 dB at home peaks are usually below 95 dB with the occasional 100 dB of pleasure . During the night when I have most of my serious sessions, noise floor is about 35 dB SPL...
I know some people claim to listen at an average of 60~70 dB. I find this low . unless some means are taken to compensate for the low sensitivity of the ear in the bass and treble, they surely are missing a lot.


Simple answers may suffice. What weighing does one use for evaluating SPL? In music, speech, Life? Is a smartphone with an App, enough? I use decibel Meter Pro on iOS..

Peace.

A-weighting is the most common standard. Any cellphone SPL app can/should be calibrated. See: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30398549/

Just yesterday in a large-ish (Landmark) movie theater while seated in the middle with only four viewers in the whole theater I recorded over a 2+ hour comedy/action film an average of 95.9 dBA and max 108.4 dBA. Previews seemed highly compressed and even louder. However for those previews, including a Top Gun: Maverick preview, I recorded an average of 93.6 dBA and max 104.3 dBA.

IMO such levels are unnecessary. There's impact, even momentary excitement. But it seems theaters are wanting to leave the customers feeling that they got their entertainment dollar's worth by rattling their eardrums. I typically cover my ears during all previews (and look away as well to save my sanity from the violence displayed).
.

 

[ahofer]

A-weighting is the most common standard. Any cellphone SPL app can/should be calibrated. See: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30398549/

Just yesterday in a large-ish (Landmark) movie theater while seated in the middle with only four viewers in the whole theater I recorded over a 2+ hour comedy/action film an average of 95.9 dBA and max 108.4 dBA. Previews seemed highly compressed and even louder. However for those previews, including a Top Gun: Maverick preview, I recorded an average of 93.6 dBA and max 104.3 dBA.

IMO such levels are unnecessary. There's impact, even momentary excitement. But it seems theaters are wanting to leave the customers feeling that they got their entertainment dollar's worth by rattling their eardrums. I typically cover my ears during all previews (and look away as well to save my sanity from the violence displayed).
.

I once complained in an iMax theater, and the manager came to explain to me that *contractually* they were not allowed to reduce the volume. I try to remember to bring my attenuators there now, as I do in planes, subways, trains, and other situations.

 

[thulle]

The wall to my neighbour is -50dB, so to get a comfortable 60-70dB when I'm over for coffee I have to play 110-120dB.

 

[Astoneroad]

Apparently, if sound waves could travel through space, the Sun would sound like a motorcycle constantly revving at about 120dbs. That may not answer any of the questions in this thread...but I find it strangely fascinating.

It's been confirmed that not only the speed of sound is different on Mars from Earth, it's different for high and low frequencies. I suggest that we all chip in to get Amir a seat on a mission to Mars, along with his Klippel.... perhaps a version that can be mounted on the Rover. It may flip some previously poor rated speakers to the top of the chart and vice versa... Headphones and EQ will be in great demand for future colonizing audiophiles... lol.

APRIL 5, 2022, 4:40 PM ET

THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT SPEEDS OF SOUND ON MARS​

Slow and staggered, sound on Mars has a constant lag.

By Cassidy Ward

That relationship between atmospheric composition and traveling soundwaves becomes increasingly important on other planets with atmospheres drastically different from Earth’s. Now, for the first time, we’ve experimentally measured the speed of sound on Mars, and the results might surprise you.
A team of scientists used instruments on the Perseverance rover to capture and analyze sounds from the Martian wind, the Ingenuity helicopter in flight, as well as pumps and lasers present on the rover itself. The results were announced by NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory and published in the journal Nature.
“Our microphone sits on top of a one-ton rover with a lot of instruments. We have the pumps that circulate fluid to warm the rover and we also have the SuperCam, which is a laser-based instrument that vaporizes rock and creates a plasm which generates a shockwave,” Baptiste Chide from the Space and Planetary Exploration Team at the Los Alamos National Laboratory told SYFY WIRE.

This illustration indicates the placement of Perseverance’s two microphones. Photo: NASA/JPL-Caltech
By analyzing the sound characteristics of a rock being vaporized, scientists can learn about the properties of the rock. That’s the central role of the microphone, but researchers turned the microphone on the larger Martian environment to analyze the way sound travels.
The atmosphere on Mars is exceedingly thin as compared to Earth, at less than one percent of Earth’s pressure. It’s also cold and made up of 95% carbon dioxide, both of which have strange effects on the way sound waves travel.
“Because of these different properties, sound doesn’t behave as it does on Earth. Sound speed on Mars is 240 meters per second and surprisingly we highlighted two different speeds of sound,” Chide said.
In the Martian atmosphere, sound speed is dependent on the frequency of the sound waves. High frequency sounds travel at about 10 meters per second faster than low frequencies waves, as a consequence of the low-pressure carbon dioxide atmosphere.