Do you need linear power supply for DACs?

[Veri]

USB C vs linear (Salas) on Khadas Tone,real conditions (as it sits on the rack) with all the bell and whistles around:

Blue linear-red stock 1Khz

Blue stock-Red linear Multitone

Blue stock-red linear CCIF 19/20K

The way I see it its insignificant.

Appreciate these!

 

[morillon]

USB C vs linear (Salas) on Khadas Tone,real conditions (as it sits on the rack) with all the bell and whistles around:

Blue linear-red stock 1Khz

Blue stock-Red linear Multitone

Blue stock-red linear CCIF 19/20K

The way I see it its insignificant.

I don't understand.. in this specific case.. the correct observation is rather significant in ccif...
(out of curiosity have you measured the actual consumption?)

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Porque elétrons não tem nenhuma semelhança com coca-cola. Projetar ideias sobre alimentos e bebidas em eletrônicos não levará você a lugar algum.

Voltando à analogia do vinho: Pleb zip cord é um vinho barato e sujo com todas as qualidades que você poderia desejar. Ele vai bater ou igualar qualquer vinho chique em um teste cego. Não há mais refinamento a ser perseguido no que diz respeito à paleta humana.

Os benefícios percebidos que você obtém ao usar o Wireworld Silver Eclipse são, com extrema probabilidade, simplesmente fabricados por sua mente.

E isso não é cinismo, ciúme ou raiva falando... apenas física rudimentar.

Coca-cola is an analogy that fits well as a metaphor to how the "same" is perceived diferent. And you are right: there are really good wines at low prices... and junk too.

 

[Owl]

If you go back to the beginning of this thread, where Amir is testing different Power supplies, the bottom line is that none of the noise produced by the power supply is audible. That being said, I have the original Topping D30 DAC that comes with a supplied 15 volt switching wall wart similar to the one Amir tested. With the DAC on and the usb source selected, the unit would heat up if left on without receiving a signal. This did not happen is the source switch was on either the coaxial or optical position. I replaced the switching power supply with a linear supply and this condition disappeared. Mind you, there was no audible improvement just a consistent temperature of the unit when turned on.

 

[NTK]

Coca-cola is an analogy that fits well as a metaphor to how the "same" is perceived diferent. And you are right: there are really good wines at low prices... and junk too.

There are big differences between the chemistry of aluminum cans and glass bottles.

Beverage Can Coatings | Sherwin-Williams

Sherwin-Williams offers comprehensive coating systems for both the interior and exterior of two and three-piece beverage cans and ends.

industrial.sherwin-williams.com

 

[MLaranjeiras]

There are big differences between the chemistry of aluminum cans and glass bottles.

Beverage Can Coatings | Sherwin-Williams

Sherwin-Williams offers comprehensive coating systems for both the interior and exterior of two and three-piece beverage cans and ends.

industrial.sherwin-williams.com

Material used for isolation plays an important role on cables, I presume. For me, the metaphor still valid

 

[MLaranjeiras]

If you go back to the beginning of this thread, where Amir is testing different Power supplies, the bottom line is that none of the noise produced by the power supply is audible. That being said, I have the original Topping D30 DAC that comes with a supplied 15 volt switching wall wart similar to the one Amir tested. With the DAC on and the usb source selected, the unit would heat up if left on without receiving a signal. This did not happen is the source switch was on either the coaxial or optical position. I replaced the switching power supply with a linear supply and this condition disappeared. Mind you, there was no audible improvement just a consistent temperature of the unit when turned on.

I started 2019 doing my homework, buying both Topping A50 DAC and Topping P50 Power Supply (and a Curious Evolved Regen USB short cable). Sold then because, at that time, I did not listen any diference with or without the Power Supply. in 2020, I jumped to the newer Topping E30. In 2021, with the hype of MQA and once the E30 could not "unfold" MQA tunes, I bought a Topping E50 DAC. Consulted about LPS for it, Topping Support said something like "nevermind". After that, no power supply on my DAC. Also, I compared many times Tidal on Mac Mini + Topping E50 MQA vs Oppo BDP 105 as a streamer. Called my son and wife to listen and pratically no diferences. Maybe one or other subtle note or vocal nuance, pro Oppo, even not "unfolding MQA" and playing then on PCM/Flac 48/24.

After all the world realized the same, MQA colapsed. Now, I moved from Tidal to the cheaper Qobuz and plug the Mac Mini via USB to the Oppo only because I avoid some gap when sending musics from my smartphone to the Oppo via mconnect app UpnP. Qobuz tracks has bigger rates than Tidal and both Oppo and my AV Receiver Pioneer can play then on plain 192/24. Bottom line: I made some real tests and got my personal conclusions. "Never tell a lie that you can not proof"

 

[Killingbeans]

Material used for isolation plays an important role on cables, I presume.

That presumption is correct... at radio frequencies. At audio frequencies, on the other hand... not really.

The people who make these cockamamie "luxury" products rely on the false assumption that everything has infinite bandwidth and that any amplitude signal into any load will result in something audible.

Cables are not that complicated a thing in the audio world. Ask any RF engineer.

Power supplies might benefit audibly from an upgrade in some instances, but then it's most likely an indication of a badly designed product. Throwing money at a fancy linear PSU would be like polishing a turd. Getting gear that has good supply noise rejection to begin with would be a far more sensible choice.

 

[SuicideSquid]

I'd like to see evidence of that.

But you don't need to do that for an EE certification. IME, most EEs have zero knowledge, training, or experience in sensory evaluation. A few do, a very few. @j_j , @amirm, @Floyd Toole, @Sean Olive, and... hmm, I can't think of any more.

Chiropractic is pseudo-science straight up. It's based around the assertion that most health problems are caused by "vertebral subluxations" which is a condition that does not actually exist.

 

[Sokel]

I don't understand.. in this specific case.. the correct observation is rather significant in ccif...
(out of curiosity have you measured the actual consumption?)

The overall hit was something like 2db and way not audible down there.
The Tone's along with it's controller (Ian Canada) consumption is near 320 mA tops if I remember well (R1 in Salas is a nice 1 Ohm Caddock MP930).

 

[SIY]

Chiropractic is pseudo-science straight up. It's based around the assertion that most health problems are caused by "vertebral subluxations" which is a condition that does not actually exist.

You seem to be making my point for me.

 

[morillon]

The overall hit was something like 2db and way not audible down there.
The Tone's along with it's controller (Ian Canada) consumption is near 320 mA tops if I remember well (R1 in Salas is a nice 1 Ohm Caddock MP930).

I don't understand
if the question has an impact.. in this specific case, your case.. yes, it is verifiable and observable.. not a story of audibility or not
And
always amazing...
we are in our observations on excessively simplified signals to arrange our observations..
a thousand place of the complexity of what gives us to listen to music....
the..a difference on just..two frequencies certainly high...
but it's nothing...nothing... ;-))

 

[SuicideSquid]

You seem to be making my point for me.

What do you mean?

You have to go to school for years to get a Dr. of Chiropractic degree, at least in Canada. There's a college that regulates the profession. You can't just bullshit your way through, you have to learn Chiropractors' specific brand of bullshit and be able to pass tests on that bullshit to get your degree. And yet, chiropractic is still 90% nonsense and bullshit. So I fail to see how this is proving your point - just like sommeliers, chiropractors have to pass tests, and you actually have to learn your stuff to pass those tests. It's just that the stuff you learn, in both cases, is mostly bullshit.

There are some audiophile products that do stand up to blind testing scrutiny. Not everything is cables and DACs where there's no difference at all. But audiophilia and oenophilia are still both mostly nonsensical bullshit aimed at separating pretentious, self-important rubes from their money.

 

[Sokel]

I don't understand
if the question has an impact.. in this specific case, your case.. yes, it is verifiable and observable.. not a story of audibility or not
And
always amazing...
we are in our observations on excessively simplified signals to arrange our observations..
a thousand place of the complexity of what gives us to listen to music....
the..a difference on just..two frequencies certainly high...
but it's nothing...nothing... ;-))

In terms of measurements (in my case at least),yes,it has,everyone can see it.
But the thread asks if someone needs it to enjoy it's music,so...
Sanity says of course that that linear supply costs as much as Tone to built nicely so the benefit is small.

(as I have said before,for me it's only the audible-not audible that matters,the rest with the measurements is fun!)

 

[pseudoid]

...I liked this video. Cables change sound, but each listener had his own impression. This is it. No crisis. No neura.

Thank you for your 32minute YouTube link... but I could not get passed the first few minutes of the blabber!
However it did make me realize how many people are trying to monetize yt by doing op-eds about speaker cables.
Good Grief, Charlie Brown!

Instead, I opted to watch the informative (<15minute) Harley Lovegrove's (of Pearl Acoustics) take on the subject of speaker cables and their interaction with speaker internal components. youtube link here

Harley's main concerns relate to maximizing BOTH the (1)long-term mechanical interface bond and (2)conductor surface area.
Pearl's novel 'tensioning' banana plugs are very clever... I want some but unwilling to pay anymore than $30 for a quad-set.
In Harley's later reply, he concedes that short of using solid-core wiring; he recommends his own company's 10AWG (equivalent) interconnect$$.

Instead of cumbersome solid-core interconnects, my next speaker cable-construction aims to use the silicone-jacketed 12AWG (680 braided tinned-copper strands @20meter total length) bi-wiring... similar to this cable.
I am not certain if this would be considered an audiphool's project but I aim to spend under $80 for the four (4) pairs of finished cables.
... not that I expect to hear a sliver of difference but just because it achieves my [perceived] concerns that are similar to Harley's!

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Thank you for your 32minute YouTube link... but I could not get passed the first few minutes of the blabber!
However it did make me realize how many people are trying to monetize yt by doing op-eds about speaker cables.
Good Grief, Charlie Brown!

Instead, I opted to watch the informative (<15minute) Harley Lovegrove's (of Pearl Acoustics) take on the subject of speaker cables and their interaction with speaker internal components. youtube link here

Harley's main concerns relate to maximizing BOTH the (1)long-term mechanical interface bond and (2)conductor surface area.
Pearl's novel 'tensioning' banana plugs are very clever... I want some but unwilling to pay anymore than $30 for a quad-set.
In Harley's later reply, he concedes that short of using solid-core wiring; he recommends his own company's 10AWG (equivalent) interconnect$$.

Instead of cumbersome solid-core interconnects, my next speaker cable-construction aims to use the silicone-jacketed 12AWG (680 braided tinned-copper strands @20meter total length) bi-wiring... similar to this cable.
I am not certain if this would be considered an audiphool's project but I aim to spend under $80 for the four (4) pairs of finished cables.
... not that I expect to hear a sliver of difference but just because it achieves my [perceived] concerns that are similar to Harley's!

In fact, I got only the last ten minutes of this video. One more block of informations on my mind. I considered their effort valid.

 

[SIY]

What do you mean?

You have to go to school for years to get a Dr. of Chiropractic degree, at least in Canada. There's a college that regulates the profession. You can't just bullshit your way through, you have to learn Chiropractors' specific brand of bullshit and be able to pass tests on that bullshit to get your degree. And yet, chiropractic is still 90% nonsense and bullshit. So I fail to see how this is proving your point - just like sommeliers, chiropractors have to pass tests, and you actually have to learn your stuff to pass those tests. It's just that the stuff you learn, in both cases, is mostly bullshit.

I'd love to see you trying that argument at Cornell, UC Davis, Montpellier...

 

[BDWoody]

You can't bullshit your way to a Doctor of Chiropractic either, but that doesn't mean that chiropractic medicine isn't 90% bullshit.

Except...you kinda can. I had an in-law...

 

[BDWoody]

I started 2019 doing my homework, buying...

It's a shame you didn't start with doing actual homework, rather than believing that buying stuff is homework. Buying is what you do after you've done your homework, and learned enough to know when someone is taking advantage of your lack of basic knowledge.

So, let's get back on topic here please. One of the cable or catch-all threads would be more appropriate.

 

[pseudoid]

I am a borne-again skeptic of the chiropracticy [<?] at large, as @SuicideSquid seems to feel.
My skepticity [<?] about dentistricy [<?] looms even larger:
*The 6-month scheduled and recommended "teeth cleaning", alone seems like a cash cow!
*The "Toss The Floss" was the "frosting" on that fiasco.
*And why their profession is totally compartmentalized away from the medical profession; I'll never understand.
Our "healthcare" plan systems (private or federal) cover medical-care but NOT oral-care, which we depend on to keep us healthy by ... I dunno... eating?

*Chiropracticy-care is covered under our health-care systems but .... oh no... not our dentistricy!
Apologies for OT!