Do you need linear power supply for DACs?

[Purité Audio]

I have a wry smile now reading your posts.
Keith

 

[Veri]

I will buy my Wireworld Silver Eclipse

My condolences.

Here's what a trained chatGPT bot has to say about it:
There is a lot of debate and controversy surrounding expensive cables, such as the Wireworld Silver Eclipse you mentioned. Some people believe that expensive cables can make a significant difference in audio or video quality, while others believe that they are just a marketing gimmick.

From a technical standpoint, cables can have an impact on the transmission of audio or video signals due to factors like resistance, capacitance, and inductance. However, the degree to which these factors affect the overall performance of the cable is often debated, and the scientific evidence supporting the idea that expensive cables perform better than less expensive ones is not particularly strong.

Many people believe that the perceived improvements in audio or video quality that come from using expensive cables are largely the result of the placebo effect. If you expect an expensive cable to improve your listening or viewing experience, you may be more likely to notice small differences that you might otherwise overlook.

 

[SIY]

There is a separate thread for discussing cables. But this is a topic with a clear, objective answer: Any perceived difference between two properly-made cables disappears when conducting a properly controlled blind test. If you think you hear a difference, it is in your head - there is also a separate thread about this phenomenon ("psychoacoustics").

To address the wine issue, this is likewise an area filled to the bring with shysters, scam artists, and people who get off on huffing their on farts. Plenty of blind tests showing that oenophiles don't have nearly the distinguished palettes they think they do. Pour such a person a glass of $20 wine and a glass of $400 wine and he'll invariably prefer the $400 wine. Pour two such glasses without disclosing the price or product name and such preferences miraculously disappear.

Difference is, to get a wine credential (like WSET, MS, MW...) or even to judge in major competitions, you have to show that you can do proper evaluations blind.

In audio, all you have to do is wave your hands around, tell a good story, and regurgitate the bullshit that the ripoff artists spew.

Comparison of the two is a bit insulting to those who work very hard in the wine world to do proper analysis.

 

[SuicideSquid]

Difference is, to get a wine credential (like WSET, MS, MW...) or even to judge in major competitions, you have to show that you can do proper evaluations blind.

In audio, all you have to do is wave your hands around, tell a good story, and regurgitate the bullshit that the ripoff artists spew.

Comparison of the two is a bit insulting to those who work very hard in the wine world to do proper analysis.

It's still a venerable font of bullshit and hilarious frauds - a business and a hobby that brings out the absolute worst in people, and you can absolutely fool even those credentialed wine-experts by waving your arms around and spewing bullshit. And there's the whole field of wine accessories that's every bit as nonsensical as anything in the audiophile world. The entire endeavour is ultimately based on the same pretentious bullshit that the audiophile world is - the delusion that your senses are far more sensitive than they actually are, that having a "golden ear" or a "golden tongue" makes you a smarter, more refined, more interesting, or better person, and the end result - insufferable people wasting money and fetishizing their ability to show off how refined they are over just enjoying a good meal, or a good piece of music - is the same. I'm not giving any respect to people who participate in perpetuating those fallacies, regardless of whether or not they've had some kind of formal training.

 

[pablolie]

I do have a linear power supply feeding my streamer device (Squeezebox Touch "providing you with flawless service for 15 years!" :-D). Some claimed it improved sound quality, which I never bought. But the switching PS for those tended to break (and be "dirty") some over time and prevented remote operation with some regularity. Ever since I plopped down $150 on the linear power supply, there have never been issues with the remote ever anymore... worth the $ just for that.

 

[Sokel]

USB C vs linear (Salas) on Khadas Tone,real conditions (as it sits on the rack) with all the bell and whistles around:

Blue linear-red stock 1Khz

Blue stock-Red linear Multitone

Blue stock-red linear CCIF 19/20K

The way I see it its insignificant.

 

[pseudoid]

It is merely foolish

You are just saying that so that the audio-market crashes and you can finally buy a pair of DanD'Agostino's Relentless Epic1600 MonoAmps...

... something that can be had for 1/10th or 1/100th the price...

but even at $8K, they still ain't a bargain!

 

[SIY]

It's still a venerable font of bullshit and hilarious frauds - a business and a hobby that brings out the absolute worst in people, and you can absolutely fool even those credentialed wine-experts by waving your arms around and spewing bullshit. And there's the whole field of wine accessories that's every bit as nonsensical as anything in the audiophile world. The entire endeavour is ultimately based on the same pretentious bullshit that the audiophile world is - the delusion that your senses are far more sensitive than they actually are, that having a "golden ear" or a "golden tongue" makes you a smarter, more refined, more interesting, or better person, and the end result - insufferable people wasting money and fetishizing their ability to show off how refined they are over just enjoying a good meal, or a good piece of music - is the same. I'm not giving any respect to people who participate in perpetuating those fallacies, regardless of whether or not they've had some kind of formal training.

I won't argue that there's far too much pretense and fraud in the commercial end. Looking at a magazine like Wine Spectator is a nauseating experience for me. My fights in the past with Robert Parker (who to me is the exemplar of everything wrong in the fine wine world) were stuff of legends.

BUT... you can't bullshit your way to a WSET cert. Or an MW. Or even an MS. Want an enology degree from Davis or Cornell? You can't bullshit your way to that. either. Sorry, that just doesn't happen. You have to pass rigorous blind tasting tests. Wave your hands all you want, you still have to name variety, region, age, winemaking styles, oak types, the works, all blind.

 

[pablolie]

... you still have to name variety, region, age, winemaking styles, oak types, the works, all blind.

Well, you don't see the bottle, but you have to be able to check the color(s) in the wine, don't you? It holds very key info...

 

[SIY]

Well, you don't see the bottle, but you have to be able to check the color(s) in the wine, don't you? It holds very key info...

Absolutely. "Blind" doesn't mean "no visual examination," it means you don't have any knowledge of what's in the glass other than... what's in the glass. Looking at the bottle is the equivalent of peeking in audio evaluation.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

I have a wry smile now reading your posts.
Keith

Many guys get excited anytime someone talk about to buy a cable the costs more than 50 dollars as If the money belong to them. What is going on here!?

 

[Doodski]

I won't argue that there's far too much pretense and fraud in the commercial end. Looking at a magazine like Wine Spectator is a nauseating experience for me. My fights in the past with Robert Parker (who to me is the exemplar of everything wrong in the fine wine world) were stuff of legends.

BUT... you can't bullshit your way to a WSET cert. Or an MW. Or even an MS. Want an enology degree from Davis or Cornell? You can't bullshit your way to that. either. Sorry, that just doesn't happen. You have to pass rigorous blind tasting tests. Wave your hands all you want, you still have to name variety, region, age, winemaking styles, oak types, the works, all blind.

That's some very serious wine knowledge. It's almost unfathomable that a person could amass such a huge amount of knowledge and then prove it taste testing with no knowledge.

 

[SuicideSquid]

I won't argue that there's far too much pretense and fraud in the commercial end. Looking at a magazine like Wine Spectator is a nauseating experience for me. My fights in the past with Robert Parker (who to me is the exemplar of everything wrong in the fine wine world) were stuff of legends.

BUT... you can't bullshit your way to a WSET cert. Or an MW. Or even an MS. Want an enology degree from Davis or Cornell? You can't bullshit your way to that. either. Sorry, that just doesn't happen. You have to pass rigorous blind tasting tests. Wave your hands all you want, you still have to name variety, region, age, winemaking styles, oak types, the works, all blind.

You can't bullshit your way to a Doctor of Chiropractic either, but that doesn't mean that chiropractic medicine isn't 90% bullshit.

And you can't bullshit your way to an electrical engineering degree, and some trained audio engineers can detect small differences in sound reproduction most listeners will miss. That doesn't mean audiophilia isn't mostly toxic bullshit, either.

In terms of inflated egos, willingness to spend obscene amounts of money on things that don't matter, and self-delusion, audiophilia and oenophilia are pretty comparable.

 

[SIY]

You can't bullshit your way to a Doctor of Chiropractic either, but that doesn't mean that chiropractic medicine isn't 90% bullshit.

I'd like to see evidence of that.

And you can't bullshit your way to an electrical engineering degree, and some trained audio engineers can detect small differences in sound reproduction most listeners will miss.

But you don't need to do that for an EE certification. IME, most EEs have zero knowledge, training, or experience in sensory evaluation. A few do, a very few. @j_j , @amirm, @Floyd Toole, @Sean Olive, and... hmm, I can't think of any more.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

And I like and own a BJC and compared it with a friend's expensive cable on his expensive set. Same sound. BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables (Black, 3 Foot) https://a.co/d/izTYkGn

 

[pablolie]

...

In terms of inflated egos, willingness to spend obscene amounts of money on things that don't matter, and self-delusion, audiophilia and oenophilia are pretty comparable.

Life would be boring if we didn't have somewhat eccentric, irrational passions here and there.

I like music, wine, mechanical watches... just for a start. But I hate snobby attitudes in any of these. Learning is fun. Looking down upon others lacks class. Telling others what they should be or not be passionate about is also unacceptable to me.

But I agree that genuine passion *should* breed a quest for learning and knowledge in that area. Claiming one is passionate about a hobby while not trying to truly learn the basics is bizarre to me. As an example: I love eating fresh oysters. Even at a young age, I was perplexed by the fact many other people love oysters, but can't tell you anything about them: the differences between different types, the age they get harvested at, etc. Even though the basics are very easy. Same with wine. And yes, I think audio is a good example for how great a hobby can be, as well as how bizarre I can be.

Just to bring audio and wine together: pretty much every Monday I join a tasting group of about a dozen people: the owner of the wine store will serve us wine and lets us guess. As a group it is very fun to start doing detective work. But there are sometimes people invited from outside the core group that fall into being snobbish fools. Those whose religion it is that if something is more expensive, it is better. And instead of being genuinely curious about learning more, they'll side-track things by ordering a $900 bottle of Screaming Eagle or Colgin something like that. Incidentally, during one of those tasting there was this "gentlemen" that is a billionaire but clearly not too smart. Everybody was kissing his butt of course. But things turned audio, and he couldn't resist talking about his system - B&W Nautilus and @20k cables and what not. A buddy of mine mentioned I was into audio too, and he asked me "Oh what do you have?" and I replied (at the time) "Accuphase, and German speakers, carefully set up." He went "Oh that is a good entry level system." I couldn't help saying "And it probably sounds more balanced, I have heard Nautilus before, and it's typically in the wrong time of room." So a challenge was born - the group met for wine tasting and an audition at his mansion, and my (pre-divorce) place. My system won out by unanimous vote. Whether it was because people got tired of his attitude or not is a different matter. I actually liked -who wouldn't- his system, but of course it was set up pathetically, with random decorations (sculptures all over the place) in a room that echoed insanely on top. On the rare occasions he still shows up for tastings, he shuns me.

 

[Angsty]

And I like and own a BJC and compared it with a friend's expensive cable on his expensive set. Same sound. BJC LC-1 Stereo Audio Cables (Black, 3 Foot) https://a.co/d/izTYkGn

Amir once reviewed some $5 RCA cable
that likely performs as well as BJC in 99% of cases (not requiring very low capacitance).

I still buy $50 BJC because I like the construction, the look and feel, and the company. Paying 10x the cost for comparable performance does not make economic sense, but I am happier with my purchase. I don’t like the look of those thin, flaccid cables - I like thicker Belden coax.

That’s often the case with linear power supplies and other premium audio goods. Sometimes aesthetics and perceptions of non-functional characteristics (e.g., biases) do make for more satisfying results, even when the objective performance is the same.

Amir helps us decide, using data, if the non-functional aspects are worth the difference to us, or not.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Amir once reviewed some $5 RCA cable
that likely performs as well as BJC in 99% of cases (not requiring very low capacitance).

I still buy $50 BJC because I like the construction, the look and feel, and the company. Paying 10x the cost for comparable performance does not make economic sense, but I am happier with my purchase. I don’t like the look of those thin, flaccid cables - I like thicker Belden coax.

That’s often the case with linear power supplies and other premium audio goods. Sometimes aesthetics and perceptions of non-functional characteristics (e.g., biases) do make for more satisfying results, even when the objective performance is the same.

Amir helps us decide, using data, if the non-functional aspects are worth the difference to us, or not.

(despite being or not a junk) Here in Brazil, we call "Coca KS" the 290ml glass bottle of coca-cola. And many many people say it is better than the canned and plastic bottled coca-cola, even the content being the same. Period.

 

[MLaranjeiras]

Amir once reviewed some $5 RCA cable
that likely performs as well as BJC in 99% of cases (not requiring very low capacitance).

I still buy $50 BJC because I like the construction, the look and feel, and the company. Paying 10x the cost for comparable performance does not make economic sense, but I am happier with my purchase. I don’t like the look of those thin, flaccid cables - I like thicker Belden coax.

That’s often the case with linear power supplies and other premium audio goods. Sometimes aesthetics and perceptions of non-functional characteristics (e.g., biases) do make for more satisfying results, even when the objective performance is the same.

Amir helps us decide, using data, if the non-functional aspects are worth the difference to us, or not.

Amir cares 99% about electrons crossing a copper wire and the inteferences this flow suffers due isolation of the wire etc. I think he has no intentions to focus and spend his time in subjetivities like coca-cola bottled in glass, plastic or aluminiun. I take his analysis in count, together with other things, like my personal taste, the built of the product and the price. For example, I have a Pioneer VSX LX 503. His new brothers 504 and 505 was detonated on Amir tests and I agree with those results take mine as reference. Hot as Hell etc etc. But was the one with 11 channels processing I could buy. Period

 

[Killingbeans]

Amir cares 99% about electrons crossing a copper wire and the inteferences this flow suffers due isolation of the wire etc. I think he has no intentions to focus and spend his time in subjetivities like coca-cola bottled in glass, plastic or aluminiun.

Because electrons has no resemblance to coca-cola whatsoever. Projecting ideas about food and beverages onto electronics will get you nowhere fast.

To go back to the wine analogy: Pleb zip cord is a dirt cheap wine with all the qualities you could possibly ask for. It will beat or equal any fancy wine in a blind test. There's no more refinement to pursue as far as the human pallete is concerned.

The perceived benefits you get from using Wireworld Silver Eclipse are with extreme likelihood simply manufactured by your mind.

And that's not cynicism, jealousy or anger speaking... just rudimentary physics.