Do you need high end speakers for rock and heavy metal?

[MatrixS2000]

One thing that we often see with speakers is that the in-room response rises up at or above the presence region. This is a really bad one, but there are many others that show similar traits:

Measurements for speaker Dali Zensor 1

www.spinorama.org

Here is another example from a recent review in this forum:

Polk Signature Elite ES20 Review (Bookshelf Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Polk Signature Elite ES20 bookshelf speaker. I purchased it from Amazon for US $349 a pair including shipping. I really like the look and finish of this series from Polk. Despite budget pricing, it looks nice and purposeful as you can tell...

www.audiosciencereview.com

I think with metal music in general, it is hard on the speakers because there is stuff going on everywhere. There is not a frequency range where nothing happens. The guitars generate a lot of overtones, again especially around the 4khz region where our ears are most sensitive.

13 dBHL of hearing loss. Continue using IEMs and headphones?

These results are superimposed from the PTA audiogram test I had and it looks like I have low-frequency hearing loss in both ears (13dBHL right ear and 12dBHL left ear), and my right ear has lost some high frequencies. This makes me wonder, how long can use IEMs and headphones until it reaches...

www.audiosciencereview.com

If you combine this with speakers like shown above, you will get a poor result.

On the low end then, you might have a double bass that constantly kicks. Lesser 2-ways with a woofer that has to try and play bass+midrange at the same time then suffer from IMD distortion.

With regards to the speaker market, I want to say that around the 1000-4000€ range, there are a lot of well engineered speakers. If you go above that, I think that very often brands to like distinguish themselves by doing things differently. This might work for some genres. Especially the classic audio show jazz song with some nice bass and a good female voice might even benefit from strange frequency response and people will gush about all the details that they can hear with the speaker. We've all seen the insane measurements of really expensive speakers at Stereophile.

This is 12000$/pair https://www.stereophile.com/content/bowers-wilkins-diamond-series-804-d4-loudspeaker-specifications


For me then, a good speaker for metal has to have no rising high frequency response in-room and has to be able to dish out the bass without sacrificing the mid-range. Volume is honestly not that important to me, just because it's metal does not mean I need or want concert levels at home. I mostly listen at 78-86dBC, peaks maybe at 105dB and that is more than enough.

I like your designs, but maybe you could build something smaller and more affordable, if it doesn't go loud as hell what would be fine with me.

To go along with all of the above, it would be useful to understand what the tonal balance of the genre is. Here is a screen capture from Izotope’s Ozone for the Rock genre.

From Izotope:

The factory target curves were generated through an analysis of chart-topping hit songs from a range of different genres.

 

[MatrixS2000]

There is no dynamic range even though many of the tracks could feature a silent noise floor and the treble is shelved quite high.

How did you come to this conclusion?

War Pigs

 

[Romario]

How did you come to this conclusion?

War Pigs
View attachment 441523

Classic rock and metal will do fine anywhere. Modern , let's say the last 20 years, is a different Ball game.

 

[MatrixS2000]

Here is a good example of a great sounding mix and master imo:

King Buffalo - Balrog 2024 - free download from Bandcamp here

 

[MatrixS2000]

Classic rock and metal will do fine anywhere. Modern , let's say the last 20 years, is a different Ball game.

War Pigs was the track that was called out for having no dynamic range, which is why I asked the question.

 

[MatrixS2000]

Listening to Balrog as I type, so did a quick measurement to how it track the Reference Rock Target:

 

[Audionaut]

Do you need high-end loudspeakers for rock and heavy metal?
Yes, of course, although once again the question arises as to what criteria high-end loudspeakers have to fulfill.

For many, it's probably the price and good looks.

Constant dispersion characteristics, great and consistent fine and coarse dynamics, very good impulse processing, no natural resonances in the cabinet and the ability to handle very high volumes are just some of the things I look for in a good loudspeaker.

I build my speakers myself and almost exclusively use PA companies such as BMS, RCF, B&C, 18sound and Beyma.

The speakers are actively equalized and controlled via hypex or Purifi modules.
The last project was a Beyma AMT in the tweeter, coupled with an 8-inch midrange driver and an 18-inch bass driver.

Another very nice project was the BMS 4590 on a spherical wave horn with a 15 inch carbon bass.

All very suitable for heavy metal (and all other music genres) and hard to buy in these versions.

High End?
Don't know

 

[sejarzo]

Dudes, anyone who grew up in the 70s knows the answer to this question.

CERWIN VEGAS, BAYBEEEEEE.

 

[Adis]

Nah, JBL L90.

 

[Sokel]

Nah, JBL L90.

I'll raise you to 4355, these ones created legends.

 

[Adis]

I'll raise you to 4355, these ones created legends.

It's not fair.

 

[ZolaIII]

I'll raise you to 4355, these ones created legends.

Legends are still made (we just don't believe such) and who ever tells you the size dosent matter... And all it needs is a gentle touch.

You won't get low C live alike, that's space.
The bass guitar won't go deep (41 Hz) but it sure as hell gonna go loud (4x12" over 130, 120 db to far feald peeks). Rest is space and more space (reverb). In the end those (huge) organs are almost unique. I did music theory and aesthetics during studies and still like real ramblers. Know quite a few musicians academic and otherwise on friendly bases, even live surrounded by them in the way (trumpeter is the worst). Back to topic, old Onkyo's, JBL L120 Classics, NS1000... ali still more associated to popular music than classic even they are all very old ones. People made pasive (very low gain cuple mV) preamp semy costume cuple PEQ alike tube speakers vocal EQ's in 60's (and they work great even today in emulated form). Point is good speakers are good speakers and you really don't want to be pedal to the metal near field to the vintage classic bass amplifier. Today there are electronic gernes and new gernes in generally where low peeks and huge ones go to low 30 Hz. Add to that + 10 dB to average low psy compensation for mid low SPL (under 70 dB). You need sub's how ever you look at it. Everything else is really discrimination to music.

 

[Vacceo]

Dudes, anyone who grew up in the 70s knows the answer to this question.

CERWIN VEGAS, BAYBEEEEEE.

Grindcore and Death Metal were probably played extensively on KEF speakers when they were born as genres:

I have listened to all these bands (and John Peel´s recordings) in Genelecs on a studio and Blades on an amazing listening room. Does it sound crushes and low fi? Absolutely! Is it less amazing than when I listened to it in a pair of terrible PC speakers when I was a kid? Not one bit, in fact, it is even better on quality gear.

 

[thunderchicken]

Mastodon’s latest sounds amazing on my relatively high-end rig. Opeth too. And Necrot.

Many don’t /need/ a good setup to enjoy the music. I was just as happy listening to Maiden and Motörhead on my crappy car speakers (Pioneer 4x10) in 2000 as I am today on my VPI deck and DIYHifi setup.

If anything, better gear doesn’t give added enjoyment, rather it steals enjoyment from stuff you used to love. Going from crappy DJ headphones to HD650s really ruined everything below that in quality for me. You can’t unhear good sound and you can’t go back!

 

[Romario]

That's true, you don't become a metalfan by using high resolution gear. But once you get there it's nice to get the satisfaction of Dani Filth squeking in the center stage.

I have several sets of speaker pairs and they perform differently on this genre. The " faster" the speaker the better the resolution. Which measurement shows the best of that fast capability?

 

[SigbergAudio]

That's true, you don't become a metalfan by using high resolution gear. But once you get there it's nice to get the satisfaction of Dani Filth squeking in the center stage.

I have several sets of speaker pairs and they perform differently on this genre. The " faster" the speaker the better the resolution. Which measurement shows the best of that fast capability?

Hard to know what you call fast, but I suspect enough energy in the midbass area (say 80-300hz-ish) might be one answer.

 

[Romario]

Well, I guess I think it's the capability of the woofer to deliver fast beats on top of a dense instrumentation as good as possible and not linger in a position for too long where it all falls apart. Fast dynamics maybe? One can measure the woofer itself as dyiers do, but where comes that in fruition in the measurements as shown here? Step response?

 

[SigbergAudio]

Well, I guess I think it's the capability of the woofer to deliver fast beats on top of a dense instrumentation as good as possible and not linger in a position for too long where it all falls apart. Fast dynamics maybe? One can measure the woofer itself as dyiers do, but where comes that in fruition in the measurements as shown here? Step response?

That doesn't sound like what's actually happening technically, but I guess I can understand what you mean. I don't think you can necessarily see it easily in measurements, it's a combination of frequency response, dispersion characteristics and even to some extent the room / placement to ensure you get a good soundstage, good separation between instruments, enough energy in the right places in the frequency range, capacity (no compression), etc.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Well, I guess I think it's the capability of the woofer to deliver fast beats on top of a dense instrumentation as good as possible and not linger in a position for too long where it all falls apart. Fast dynamics maybe? One can measure the woofer itself as dyiers do, but where comes that in fruition in the measurements as shown here? Step response?

No low bass.

 

[Romario]

The room is treated, placement is away from the wall, that's not it. The woofer excursion and retraction ( not sure about the phrasing) works better, faster, on the more expensive speakers keeping up with fast high intensity metal tracks.