Do you need high end speakers for rock and heavy metal?

[restorer-john]

I share the view that the more high-energy music output that is required across the full audio bandwidth, the more taxing and demanding is the music of the speakers.

That is why audio demos and hifi shows so often lean towards uncomplicated demo tracks, like ballads, three-piece jazz, etc. Even a full-range 8" single driver speaker can sell itself under such conditions.

That is also why the most demanding test of a speaker is to play dramatic orchestral music. In some ways rock and metal stress the speaker similarly, even more so, but the lack of a neutral reference point counts against them. The whole sound of rock and pop is highly fabricated, with no reference, so the listener has little clue, just from listening to the music itself, whether the speaker is doing a good job of reproduction. The entire sound, even vocals, is make-believe.

And the latter point is exactly why I favour the use of accurate speakers for rock/etc, because there is no other way to feel confident that one is getting the sound that the production team wanted to be heard. Accurate, plus full audio bandwidth, plus high SPL capability.

Oh, and I would have some treble tone control handy. Too many producers of this sort of music have impaired hearing and don't get the treble balance right. It's unpredictable: no speaker is going to cover that without adjustability.

cheers

Excellent post.

 

[restorer-john]

When I say dynamic range, what I mean is ability to play loud without audible compression or distortion. So perhaps dynamic capacity is a term that is more precise.

That is just maximum undistorted SPL you are talking about.

Dynamic range is more than that, it encompasses lowest levels and the highest levels. When it comes to loudspeakers, they need to remain accurate at extremely low and high levels without falling apart at either end. In your case, disappearing into noise and/or having linearity issues at low levels due to non-linearities in the physical motor structures of the drivers.

 

[Sokel]

No low bass.

To be correct you can also have low bass, just not 20's, not by the same driver if you want that sudden chest punch.
A nice strong motor, tight, big-ish driver that can do 40's, port at upper 20's, cut at 300-ish and it can be faster than light.

 

[Audionaut]

The " faster" the speaker the better the resolution. Which measurement shows the best of that fast capability?

With a mixture of these measurements
Waterfall / CSD
Step Response
Group Delay

PS
For me, a loudspeaker that reacts "quickly" should remain low-distortion even with impulsive signals at higher levels.
This is important for classical music and heavy metal.

This can be assessed via THD+N vs. frequency and level.

 

[ZolaIII]

To be correct you can also have low bass, just not 20's, not by the same driver if you want that sudden chest punch.
A nice strong motor, tight, big-ish driver that can do 40's, port at upper 20's, cut at 300-ish and it can be faster than light.

No port big one's, 8~9 m long room and you can get low C and time correction for it (room fundamental). Punch is up (in frequency and under 1 m). Slam can be low as 70 Hz but we usually identify it for mid upper bass 100+ Hz. On low bass and uper mid bass will be more than 90% true peeks usually those two go almost simultaneously. Most R'N'R will have both bass guitar to 41 Hz and loud and drums set. You cut to keep (unwanted) harmonics down not because driver can do it.

 

[Sokel]

No port big one's, 8~9 m long room and you can get low C and time correction for it (room fundamental). Punch is up (in frequency and under 1 m). Slam can be low as 70 Hz but we usually identify it for mid upper bass 100+ Hz. On low bass and uper mid bass will be more than 90% true peeks usually those two go almost simultaneously. Most R'N'R will have both bass guitar to 41 Hz and loud and drums set. You cut to keep (unwanted) harmonics down not because driver can do it.

Chest punch is even higher, we have tests for it, it can reach as much as 250Hz (centered at ~150Hz) .
Gut punch is a little lower, as you say.

 

[SigbergAudio]

No low bass.

You can have low bass, but it has to be the right amount and it has to be relatively even. It's pretty common to turn up the subwoofers (or deep bass) in attempt to get that punch, but in reality you end up getting less because it masks the midbass. But you can definitely have both.

 

[ZolaIII]

Chest punch is even higher, we have tests for it, it can reach as much as 250Hz (centered at ~150Hz) .
Gut punch is a little lower, as you say.

OK, true peek up to 150 Hz. Even mid sized woofer 8" or pair of 6.5 one's will do mid to uper bass when properly stressed out by being cut high enough for home reproduction SPL levels (88 dB stereo white noise reference calibration point @ listening spot). And to me that's 120 Hz with ELC accounted in (crossover neads to be very good done so that it doesn't lack energy in crossed area).

 

[Romario]

With a mixture of these measurements
Waterfall / CSD
Step Response
Group Delay

PS
For me, a loudspeaker that reacts "quickly" should remain low-distortion even with impulsive signals at higher levels.
This is important for classical music and heavy metal.

This can be assessed via THD+N vs. frequency and level.

Ok, good to know. Do you have an example?

 

[thunderchicken]

Have you guys seen the stuff about the difference between the Harman curve and the mastering curve? It seems to fit what you’re talking about pretty neatly as far as perceptual difference in overall tonality and the bottom end.

I know that when I throw on a record my speakers fall apart before I get all the way to the volume I want for some tracks, like The Circular Ruins by At The Gates or Gigantium by Mastodon. For loud and undistorted sound, I feel like a big 3-way speaker and stereo subwoofers is the way to go. I would still cross to subs around 80hz.

I have smaller 2-ways right now crossed at 100hz that are *chef’s kiss* at reasonably loud levels. They just don’t push past “reasonable” the way something with more drivers and more cone area do.

 

[SigbergAudio]

Have you guys seen the stuff about the difference between the Harman curve and the mastering curve? It seems to fit what you’re talking about pretty neatly as far as perceptual difference in overall tonality and the bottom end.

Not sure what you are referencing here. Link / reference?

 

[MatrixS2000]

Not sure what you are referencing here. Link / reference?

I posted the Rock reference curve earlier.

 

[SigbergAudio]

I posted the Rock reference curve earlier.

Right. Not sure if we can compare that with the harman curve and conclude anything useful. What does the same curve for some other popular genres look like?

 

[goat76]

I don't see what in-room measurements of loudspeakers could have in common with spectrum curves of different audio productions.

 

[MatrixS2000]

What does the same curve for some other popular genres look like?

Here you go...

Cinematic:

Country:

EDM:

Folk:

HipHop/Rap:

Jazz:

Pop:

R&B/Soul:

Reggae:
:

 

[MatrixS2000]

I don't see what in-room measurements of loudspeakers could have in common with spectrum curves of different audio productions.

Then what is the purpose of this thread?

 

[SigbergAudio]

Then what is the purpose of this thread?

To see if we can agree on the fact that rock and metal music benefit from high quality speakers.

 

[MatrixS2000]

To see if we can agree on the fact that rock and metal music benefit from high quality speakers.

Yes, I know that is why I was interested in this thread. If we are talking about a specific genre, I would think it would be useful to know its spectrum and how it differs from the others.

 

[SigbergAudio]

Yes, I know that is why I was interested in this thread. If we are talking about a specific genre, I would think it would be useful to know its spectrum and how it differs from the others.

I'ts interesting to see, but not sure it is relevant. That would imply that you need a specific tonality on the speaker for each specific genre, aka different speakers for each genre, which is not what we observe. A good speaker works well across genres despite the mastering curve of the different genres being quite different.

 

[Digital_Thor]

First off... I have both read and also measured(confirmation), that the sloping curve, is a product of a given speaker design and higher frequencies quicker losing energy over distance + typical higher absorption rate of increasingly higher frequencies - so, not something you can just successfully force onto any speaker with a DSP.
Further, I do not think that the "pop curve" presented, would sound nice with typical pop music. I have a natural sloping curve because of my DIY coax speakers, which I definitely prefer for especially pop music. If I had more energy in the upper midrange and tweeter... my ears would be tired from most pop music - very quickly - IMO.... and I did try