Do You Miss Knobs and Dials and Switches?

[Penelinfi]

If it's good tactility then yes, knobs and switches.
I prefer not having so much text everywhere like some amps have. These days I only need minimal knobs and switches generally.

Sometimes a knob or switch is better; eg in cars, or intuitive use like a volume control where you don't need to look at something.
And stoves. Sure the touch controls are easier to clean but then you spend all that saved time pressing glass and beeping when the knob would do it in 1s.

 

[MattHooper]

And stoves. Sure the touch controls are easier to clean but then you spend all that saved time pressing glass and beeping when the knob would do it in 1s.

I regret to this day the stove we bought years ago. It has touch controls - I’m not sure if they would be called capacitive or resistive touch control. But the most ludicrous thing is that the entire “ screen” surface is black and all the button labels are very dark gray. You can barely see them even leaning up close to it. After all these years, I’m still having to lean close and squint my eyes to try and find the buttons. It’s among the stupidest design decisions I’ve ever dealt with.

 

[Waxx]

The good thing though is that NCAP plans to punish in the future important controls if they are only per touch, so I guess and hope we will see a comeback to physical controls, which are more expensive to manufacture but also more reliable in the long run.

So does the EU, they want to have at least the windows, lights, heating and turn signals be physical controls and that the handbrake must be direct (not even remote electronic) also. It's still a discussion, but the chance is very big that this preposition will make it. And if the EU asks that brands that are full touchscreen operated like Tesla will have to adapt or stop selling in the whole EU. And that is a big and wealthy market, where you can sell cars over 100K in big masses (like BMW, Audi and Mercedes does) and where cars got replaced faster than in the US or Asia. BMW is the biggest selling brand in Belgium btw... followed by Dacia (a budget Renault) and Kia.

 

[ChrisG]

Yes, Mazda did copy the design from the 2022 BMW 116i i drive, it's almost exact the same layout. The display is bigger on the BMW and it has an automatic gearbox (at least mine), but the general layout is the same. I know BMW use that layout since at least 2012 (and older versions since 1999), while the Mazda is fairly new in this. It's the best system i know of today, altough it also got some menu's. I don't know how the Mazda version is (never drove Mazda), but it's not a bad id to try to copy BMW on this because it works very well.

My Mazda CX30 was registered in 2020. IIRC, they were released late-2019, so I'm not sure they copied it from a 2022 BMW. They might well have taken inspiration from the earlier models, though.

Either way, it's a much better control option than everything-on-a-touchscreen, and I'm pleased to read that NCAP are considering this element of the controls.

 

[DMill]

I still have a tube integrated with toggle switch for power on/off. That “click” really is a delight. Say what you want about tube amps, but everything from the volume to the L/R balance knob has such an amazing tactile feel to it. Cary made a lovely piece of audio jewelry 30 years ago.

 

[MattHooper]

I still have a tube integrated with toggle switch for power on/off. That “click” really is a delight. Say what you want about tube amps, but everything from the volume to the L/R balance knob has such an amazing tactile feel to it. Cary made a lovely piece of audio jewelry 30 years ago.

I really like the look and build quality of my Conrad Johnson tube preamplifier:

It has up-and-down buttons for volume. They have a fairly nice feel, and there’s a clack for every change of the resistor level. I could kind of do without the clacking. It’s a tiny bit noisy when I use it with the remote control.

Also, while I perhaps like the buttons more than a touchscreen, I still significantly prefer a volume knob over up and down buttons.

My benchmark LA4 preamp has the volume knob, but I’m not terribly fond of it. It feels a bit plasticy and clicky. I prefer the volume knob of the custom remote that I had built, that I pictured in another post.

By far the very best knob/switches in my system come from my Transrotor turntable motor controller mentioned In this POST.

 

[JeffS7444]

Power switch on my newly-built Douk amplifier is apparently manufactured under license from Taiwan's Highly Electric (I couldn't make this stuff up). While digging through my box of parts, I discovered that I had an original Highly-brand switch exactly like the one included in the kit, save that the body color is different, and it's marked "Made in Taiwan". I must have acquired it over a decade ago, probably because I liked it's clicky feel so much. As it's mainland cousin replicated it's nice feel perfectly, I used the kit part in my build. Volume control is a small Alps-alike pot with dampened clicky feel. I took extra pains to ensure that the Bakelite knob attached to it had no wobble or tendency to work itself loose. And the overall feel is surprisingly luxurious for such an inexpensive product.

OTOH, I initially had misgivings about the 100% app-controlled Parks Audio Waxwing DSP phono preamp, but was ultimately won over by Waxwing's open Bluetooth control API and the convenience of smaller size and greater ease of where to put the thing.

 

[eric-c]

Using the car analogy, I agree with a few simple well placed knobs and sliders. I still have a 1989 bmw 325 convertible and love the simplicity and placement of the hvac knobs compared to the modern bmws which we drive.

From an audio perspective, the knobs, buttons have to be of decent quality. Yes it won't make a difference with sonics unless it's a bad pot. My dad had a 1970's Sansui quadrophonic receiver with a ton of knobs and as kid I would turn them all the time and they had good heft and quality feel to them especially the tuner. In the 90's, I bought my dad a NAD 7020i receiver and the input selector buttons were DOA. You could tell the quality wasn't the same. Of course the receiver was probably 1/10 of the price if you used present day value.

 

[JRowland]

I scored this as a junior in high school open box. I replaced it 20 years later with Harman Kardon unit I won through my job. I didn’t replace the Kenwood I just moved it to garage duty where it still rocks out to weekly car washes at the minimum. That Harman conked out recently but the Kenwood carries on. It has a motorcycle windshield as a dust guard, maybe that’s the secret They tried hard to fill it all with buttons, I don’t remember the competition in 1989 but I’m thinking it was a battle of buttons.

 

[Mart68]

I scored this as a junior in high school open box. I replaced it 20 years later with Harman Kardon unit I won through my job. I didn’t replace the Kenwood I just moved it to garage duty where it still rocks out to weekly car washes at the minimum. That Harman conked out recently but the Kenwood carries on. It has a motorcycle windshield as a dust guard, maybe that’s the secret They tried hard to fill it all with buttons, I don’t remember the competition in 1989 but I’m thinking it was a battle of buttons.

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It has an LED embedded in the volume pot to indicate where the level is at. I regard that as essential but no-one is doing that anymore.

 

[mhardy6647]

It has an LED embedded in the volume pot to indicate where the level is at. I regard that as essential but no-one is doing that anymore.

I would posit that ears provide a pretty good secondary indication for level assessment -- although, I suppose the LED would be useful for the severely hearing-impaired audiophile.
On the other hand, carefully-placed delicate tchotchke on adjacent shelving can provide orthogonal audiovisual indication of level settings as well.

 

[Mart68]

I would posit that ears provide a pretty good secondary indication for level assessment -- although, I suppose the LED would be useful for the severely hearing-impaired audiophile.
On the other hand, carefully-placed delicate tchotchke on adjacent shelving can provide orthogonal audiovisual indication of level settings as well.

Tchotchke - good word, had to look it up

The embedded LED is not so much level assessment, which can be achieved with a dot of Tippex if it comes to it, but that once it became possible to do it, it became aesthetically essential - IMV.

 

[cavedriver]

I posted another example of this Revox unit in the beautiful speakers thread a while back. I like it better than the Nagra recorder I posted earlier, and maybe even more than the Nagra IV's that have been posted. I share it now because it begs another question- do people like their stereos to have lights that are visible when listening to music? As lights go I kind of like the glow from some tube amps, but bright LEDs suck and anything legible is a distraction in my mind.

Personally, I've always preferred total darkness, except when trying to find the buttons on a remote. I recently acquired a Denon receiver that has a remote that automatically lights up when you move it. Their execution is imperfect but I like the idea. It also makes me think that a more beautiful remote with more than 1-2 buttons could be made. Just like in the car examples, the layout of buttons should always be memorizable and usable without looking. I wish more designers practiced this.

Edit: Also, I would call the Nixie tubes in the display below a "complication" just like on a watch - the original function is still achieved but it's done in an extra-complicated way to show off and make object more appealing. Of course the success of any complication is highly subjective. For example, I think gyro tourbillons are the most awesome watch complication I've ever seen, even if out of my price range for a decoration, but it should be possible to add aesthetic elements to things like stereo equipment while not claiming it's functional, unlike how so much audiophilia crap claims it makes a difference. J Sikora turntables look like "something" if I'm being gracious, but $60k for a thing that spins records around can go fork off. The Hifirose volume control is certainly a complication, although I would agree with the above that it's not that successful aesthetically.

the masters of gyro tourbillons:

https://www.jaeger-lecoultre.com/us-en/our-maison/masters-of-complications/multi-axis-tourbillon

 

[Hugo9000]

I wish I owned one of these:

Nakamichi 630 Specifications

 

[Snoopy]

Amp upgrade arrived I like the mixture of modern and oldfashioned that I get from Yamaha and Technics

Maybe a custom wood plinth for the turntable will follow . I know I could buy around 20-25 fosi amps instead of the Yamaha .. but damn fine amp and craftsmanship. For something a average person with a normal job can still afford .

 

[Mike Madigan]

I have numerous systems pretty much all with knobs. Most of it is older equipment I have fixed. I do HD streaming and portable sound via 1000’s on songs on a iPhone and good Bluetooth headphones. At home using a Schiit DAC .

 

[Mart68]

Amp upgrade arrived I like the mixture of modern and oldfashioned that I get from Yamaha and Technics


View attachment 448395View attachment 448396View attachment 448397

Maybe a custom wood plinth for the turntable will follow . I know I could buy around 20-25 fosi amps instead of the Yamaha .. but damn fine amp and craftsmanship. For something a average person with a normal job can still afford .

Lovely. It's an art object that amplifies.

 

[Snoopy]

Lovely. It's an art object that amplifies.

It sure is. I love the designs they used in Japan since the 60/70s. Especially the Yamaha has no offensive blue or Green / white LEDs that find so disturbing. The same goes for the VU meters. It’s a diffused light. Not some bright blue or green backlight or even worse a LCD screen that simulated them.

The Phono Stage also sounds pretty sweet for something in a integrated amp.




I wanted to post this in the Fosi thread but it also applies to all the other brands that are usually why people come to ASR:


„We get „gadget“ after gadget and people end up with a stack of toys. Surely the price is nice „per“ unit. But sometimes I think it would be wiser to just look for a nice (used) integrated amplifier or AVR that does everything in one box by a reputable Brand where I don’t need to worry about a potential fire hazard „

And even the nice stuff sometimes looked it was designed by 3 different teams at the same time. And with the next release you might as well slap another brands name on there because it looks nothing like the previous products.

For exactly this or these reasons i won’t be buying anything anymore by those guys. Japanese brands also sold out and produced junk but I’m glad there are still a few around that Value those things and put some effort into it.

 

[Mart68]

It sure is. I love the designs they used in Japan since the 60/70s. Especially the Yamaha has no offensive blue or Green / white LEDs that find so disturbing. The same goes for the VU meters. It’s a diffused light. Not some bright blue or green backlight or even worse a LCD screen that simulated them.

The Phono Stage also sounds pretty sweet for something in a integrated amp.




I wanted to post this in the Fosi thread but it also applies to all the other brands that are usually why people come to ASR:


„We get „gadget“ after gadget and people end up with a stack of toys. Surely the price is nice „per“ unit. But sometimes I think it would be wiser to just look for a nice (used) integrated amplifier or AVR that does everything in one box by a reputable Brand where I don’t need to worry about a potential fire hazard „

And even the nice stuff sometimes looked it was designed by 3 different teams at the same time. And with the next release you might as well slap another brands name on there because it looks nothing like the previous products.

For exactly this or these reasons i won’t be buying anything anymore by those guys. Japanese brands also sold out and produced junk but I’m glad there are still a few around that Value those things and put some effort into it.

Agree. I suppose it doesn't apply to everyone (what does) but it matters to me what the equipment looks like as well as the performance.

When I was putting together my 'final' system it was arguably the most important criteria - for the electronics anyway - I knew by that point I could take the performance as read. Although my favourite era for aesthetics is the period 1979 through to about 1990 so I bought accordingly.

Despite a generous budget I was unable to find a current model pre-amp I liked the look of so had to go vintage for that. Hopefully the current trend for retro will continue and we'll get more products that are aesthetically pleasing as opposed to bland or ugly.

A few pieces of the modern Chinese equipment I quite like - the Topping E30 with its tiny size and its blue and orange display is one I find aesthetically pleasing and is now in use on my A/V system. But in general they look and feel bland and cheap. As well as good sound quality I want equipment that gives me pleasure to look at and use too. I'm fairly pragmatic and utilitarian so it took me a long while to realise / accept how important that aspect is to me.

 

[Snoopy]

it’s totally fine to admit that you like quality / designs or Brands. After all it’s most likely for a good reason.

Some designs are just iconic and timeless. It’s no suprise every TV show uses Vintage Gear to set the mood.

I’m sure a Alexa wouldn’t have the same impact on TV

Same goes for brands. It just means something when a brand is around for 50-70+ years and invented stuff.

And it’s obvious that more and more people are tired of touch screens and tiny invisible buttons.

I just feel sorry for the generation that will never know or care for „quality“ and „heritage“. That are truly fine with a iPad to watch movies instead of a cinema . And Bluetooth earbuds instead of a Stereo system.