Do you have prejudices that you can't get rid of? (Lets stick to audio)

[mhardy6647]

Appendix: the best aspect of that marantz's back apron has got to be the two bits of pictorial instruction that were deemed essential to add to that Rococo landscape:

Yup. Those were the only two things that puzzled me when I beheld that rear view. Thank you so much marantz designers for clarifying those two features for me!

 

[Sokel]

- multicolored, mixed fonts displays, that's an instant no, it's like a two year old discovered some hidden markers.

- scratchy or not perfectly centered cheap pots, cheap switches (specially rocker switches, it's an art not to stay in the middle under ANY circumstances)

- mixed black and silver gear, same with visible screws (laziest engineers ever?) (I exclude studio gear thought)

- unrepairable gear or hard to repair, disposable gear, unsafe gear.

- speakers pretending to be bigger than they are (sorry, no impact for you mister)

- any kind of blanket statements that do not take conditions into account. Example, SPL for "home" listening. What is "home"? A home can be 100 m² and another can be 2000 m². At the same example the smaller house can use a bigger room for listening than the other one (even if chances are the opposite, but can't narrow it) . So?

- comparing un-comparable stuff always with price at mind (anything more than a phone with the stock IEMs is luxury, no matter if it's 100 euro or a million euro, can't put "smart" to it)

- I'm a sucker for nice PCB's, nice solderwork, genuine components, etc, the works.

I surely have more but that's the basic ones.

 

[Cogito]

I HATE potentiometer volume controls. Resistor ladder or digital only, thank you.

 

[gnarly]

I have to admit I've developed a prejudice against home audio.

It began when I purchased some highly regarded prosound self-powered speakers, and then really took off when I became enamored with the world of DIY speaker building and loudspeaker processing.
I learned so much about speaker design, drivers, crossovers, and the line level control and amplification that fits them.....focusing on a pragmatic, what matters most point of view. Everything I thought I knew, from decades of deep involvement/dedication with home audio.... many purchased products, review mags, upscale salon listening sessions, friends systems.....all the best of the home audio world I could experience.....well, all that now seems like an elementary school level of audio education and experience, compared to now.

And I also have to admit home audio sickens me when the jewelry /eye candy aspect, is what's clearly commanding its often exorbitant price.
(Please don't get me wrong...to each his own..by all means I hope we should all be able to get what we want..)
From DIY, I've learned how to estimate what it would cost to replicate speakers, absent the eye candy aspect. Makes me sad sometimes, to see what so-so acoustic designs sell for.

Anyway, an audio bias and prejudice I can't seem to shake? Yep, afraid so.

 

[Cogito]

Back panels... I like to see them, even if some of them flummox me*. The problem is that some of us are terminally mal-organized.


__________________________
* On topic (!) - I guess I have deeply ingrained, knee-jerk aversion to prejudice against complexity in audio reproduction strategies. A guess a nexus for my disdain is the AVR... to adapt a popular, pithy American expression: n kilos of nitrogen-rich waste material in an n/2 kilo-sized container.



(image borrowed from this very site, as the watermark notes )

Looking at that puts me to mind of Dr. Heywood Floyd reading the zero-gravity toilet instructions in Kubrick's 2001.

Dusty audio gear is a trigger for me...

 

[xanalog]

Some of us may remember the Stereophile magazine's Sam Tellig from his "Audio Cheapskate" column. [He may have been ousted from their editorial board due to some sexual what-evers, that is irrelevant here.]

I was a fan of his mind-set (and feelings) about the high prices for hi-end audio hardware.
But I continued to spend mucho dineros for what I thought (and felt) were competent gear. Yet, such costly audio hardware lacked consistent measurements/testing that we have come to take for granted... thanks to ASR.

Some years later, I had realized that Sam Tellig had actually infused - within me - that purchasing a quality AOI receiver/AVR was foolish, especially due to planned obsolescence of such A/V hardware.

When the era of digital (software-driven) audio/video marriage was forced upon us; I decided to fully go with 'separates' in an effort to lessen the impact of forced A/V hardware upgrades to my wallet but I still continued to purchase based on name/brand recognition, along w/their associated higher prices.
Things, in the A/V industry, began to change (for music lovers) when reasonably priced yet highly respected performance from Chinese A/V hardware makers started to flood the international markets.
Since the beginning of the Covid era, I have sold (or given away) all my costly, older and large 'separates' A/V hardware, and I've become an "audio cheapskate" (w/o becoming a horn-bag).

Now, I wince when someone asks the names of A/V brands that I've purchased, in the past 5 years. Actually, I am embarrassed to tell people that I harbor name-brands like SMSL/Topping/FOSI/Douk/etc.

• In the next few years, I am happy that I won't have to worry about

Dusty audio gear is a trigger for me...

• I would not hesitate to recycle and/or trash my cheap A/V gear, when they become...

- unrepairable gear or hard to repair...

• Old A/V and AOI hardware has zero appeal for me, regardless of their colorful but aged back panels:

+

 

[Multicore]

TTs without a decent hinged dust cover. Some fussy-looking TTs don't even come with a cover. Can you believe it? Shameful!

 

[Ropeburn]

I HATE potentiometer volume controls. Resistor ladder or digital only, thank you.

Doesn't seem like much of a prejudice. Good stereo pots are really expensive, and then still technically inferior to ladders or digital solutions using encoders. I used to have loads of studio gear (wannabe musician lol), with LOTS of pots, and I've grown very sensitive to the feel alone. Heavy and oily generally is the nicest, and there's nothing worse than a crackling analog pot for digital purposes - it results in highly irritating jumpy parameter behaviour.

 

[MattHooper]

- if it's not Blues or Jazz (pre 1970) then it doesn't get a look in (exceptions for Rory Gallagher, Roy Buchanan and Neil Young)

Oh man, that reminds me of perhaps my most rock, solid prejudice: I hate “the blues.” My idea of hell is Being stuck in an eternal bar forced to watch performances by Buddy Guy, Muddy Waters etc.

I think I developed this prejudice, not simply from the fact that the music doesn’t appeal to me, but it’s also the level of reverence The Blues seems to command, where you have the blues musician making all those stank faces, callout from the audience at the deep profundity of the emotion… and the fact that when I was a regular attendee of high-end audio shows it was impossible to escape tracks from such Blues artists, inevitably leading to rooms filled with old audiophiles sitting in silence, nodding in tandem with the profundity they are experiencing. I just can’t get out of those room fast enough. And it’s still a staple of audiophile shows (though at least it seems to expand somewhat into electronica these days).

Sorry… back to audio prejudices….

 

[Chr1]

Definitely prejudiced against the following genres:

Eurodisco.
Europop.
(Though I will confess to a slightly deranged and unexplainable love/hate thing for Aqua's "Barbie Girl")

Plus... most: Synthpop, gabba, opera, folk.

Tho I do like a few select tracks of the above.

 

[Blake Klondike]

Prejudice against any composer or song writer who calls himself or herself an artist - extra demerits for artiste.

Similar prejudice against any song with fewer than 4 chords or a melodic compass smaller than a perfect fifth - extra demerits for opaque or pretentious lyrics.

have you found any exceptions to this? sometimes if the writing is good, i will not notice the limited chord vocabulary or melodic range. the two things you just described are literal hallmarks of contemporary music-- it makes it very tough for me to really hear anything made after about 1995. there are exceptions of course, but i teach guitar for a living and i can say for certain that on the pop level, we are at a high point for creative sound production, but a low point for lyric-writing, composition and musical ability. and i have to say that kids may like this stuff, and i am glad, but that doesn't change the objective facts about the deterioration of the art form. lots more thoughts about this if anyone cares to discuss, and am definitely interested in hearing other perspectives!

 

[Ropeburn]

Oh man, that reminds me of perhaps my most rock, solid prejudice: I hate “the blues.” My idea of hell is Being stuck in an eternal bar forced to watch performances by Buddy Guy, Muddy Waters etc.

I think I developed this prejudice, not simply from the fact that the music doesn’t appeal to me, but it’s also the level of reverence The Blues seems to command, where you have the blues musician making all those stank faces, callout from the audience at the deep profundity of the emotion… and the fact that when I was a regular attendee of high-end audio shows it was impossible to escape tracks from such Blues artists, inevitably leading to rooms filled with old audiophiles sitting in silence, nodding in tandem with the profundity they are experiencing. I just can’t get out of those room fast enough. And it’s still a staple of audiophile shows (though at least it seems to expand somewhat into electronica these days).

Sorry… back to audio prejudices….

I have a vaguely similar prejudice against jazz, in particular freejazz. Rationally, I perfectly know they're highly trained musicians and that the whole style requires a high amount of skill from the musicians.

But still, it sounds SO RANDOM to me, with the drummer doing his thing, and the bassist bassing, and the always dreaded fartophone saxing, oh sorry, I mean the saxophone farting in the most random way possible. It makes my toenails curl up, and I can't help thinking: "this barely qualifies as music". I know better rationally (it is indeed music), but this feeling tells me how much exactly I hate it.

Fun fact: dad loves this freejazz shit, but mom and I hate it equally strongly and often mock him together whenever I visit. All in good fun of course.

It gets even funnier considering I know this "it's not even music" trope all too well, as an old electrotechno basshead. Techno is perhaps the most often called "not music" style in the world. And still, I hate freejazz for being so randomly - as I perceive it - unmusical. Mom agrees - she says "psytrance is structured at least and therefore bearable - freejazz is just random noises".

 

[Blake Klondike]

Oh man, that reminds me of perhaps my most rock, solid prejudice: I hate “the blues.” My idea of hell is Being stuck in an eternal bar forced to watch performances by Buddy Guy, Muddy Waters etc.

I think I developed this prejudice, not simply from the fact that the music doesn’t appeal to me, but it’s also the level of reverence The Blues seems to command, where you have the blues musician making all those stank faces, callout from the audience at the deep profundity of the emotion… and the fact that when I was a regular attendee of high-end audio shows it was impossible to escape tracks from such Blues artists, inevitably leading to rooms filled with old audiophiles sitting in silence, nodding in tandem with the profundity they are experiencing. I just can’t get out of those room fast enough. And it’s still a staple of audiophile shows (though at least it seems to expand somewhat into electronica these days).

Sorry… back to audio prejudices….

i hear you on that. blues listeners are way worse than blues musicians. one thing i can suggest that i have noticed in my old age: when i listen to a blues player, i am listening to the personality of the human being, not the musical content. like if you listen to muddy waters, you are getting a perspective on the world and a powerful and profound human connection, just as thought you were listening to a tape recording of him talking about his life. i have to say that i haven't heard anything made after 1975 that has this genuineness to it. i saw ry cooder in 1992 talking about how blues has become a carnival show with no connection to emotional authenticity. will just summarize by saying that i used to feel the way you do, but have come around to being able to appreciate the powerful personality that comes through when a genuine artist sings or plays.

 

[Ropeburn]

Definitely prejudiced against the following genres:

Eurodisco.
Europop.
(Though I will confess to a slightly deranged and unexplainable love/hate thing for Aqua's "Barbie Girl")

Plus... most: Synthpop, gabba, opera, folk.

Tho I do like a few select tracks of the above.

I have a treat for you:

 

[xanalog]

I hate “the blues.”

If you had told us (me) you "hate" disco or rap (or even saxophone), you would have gotten a Like from me.
Personally, I could never 'hate' the blues; as this genre has much of the DNA that has been inherited by the rock genre (varieties) of music.

I would dare not ask what your feelings are regarding rock-n-roll music; especially, if their close association (blues/rock) breeds a similar 'hate' for the latter.

 

[Blake Klondike]

I have a vaguely similar prejudice against jazz, in particular freejazz. Rationally, I perfectly know they're highly trained musicians and that the whole style requires a high amount of skill from the musicians.

But still, it sounds SO RANDOM to me, with the drummer doing his thing, and the bassist bassing, and the always dreaded fartophone saxing, oh sorry, I mean the saxophone farting in the most random way possible. It makes my toenails curl up, and I can't help thinking: "this barely qualifies as music". I know better rationally (it is indeed music), but this feeling tells me how much exactly I hate it.

Fun fact: dad loves this freejazz shit, but mom and I hate it equally strongly and often mock him together whenever I visit. All in good fun of course.

It gets even funnier considering I know this "it's not even music" trope all too well, as an old electrotechno basshead. Techno is perhaps the most often called "not music" style in the world. And still, I hate freejazz for being so randomly - as I perceive it - unmusical. Mom agrees - she says "psytrance is structured at least and therefore bearable - freejazz is just random noises".

i don't often hear free jazz when i listen to it either. i had a guy who plays it explain it to me once: he said it's not just music you can walk into and appreciate. it requires some understanding of the concepts the guys are using; because he said there are just as many conventions in free jazz as anywhere else, it's just they are hard to hear upon a surface listening. i wonder, do you feel that way about miles' free electric albums, like bitches brew, on the corner, etc? to me those are so groove-heavy and i like the individual voices of the players so much that it's a lot more compelling to me.

 

[VMAT4]

I have a preconception that AMT and ribbon tweeters are technically superior to dome tweeters.

I think this also. Yet I think I prefer a rolled off response that I believe will more likely come from a silk dome tweeter.

 

[Blake Klondike]

I think my prejudice runs the opposite direction from yours. I like high end audio being separated aesthetically from “chain store” audio components. I like some added luxury in materials, design and build quality that to me says “ this is a luxury item. This is high-end.”

Racks full of black box components depresses me

totally re: black boxes. there is an art to component design that is just as much an art as anything else. they can really add to the emotional experience of listening, because they look cool, the knobs are satisfying to turn, etc. and they can help to create a creative space for listening, just through their vibe.

 

[Blake Klondike]

My prejudices are based on negative experiences and all of them were self-inflicted:

• "There's something magical about vinyl playback"
  • Apparently, it's the magic of distortion accompanied by an occasional snap, crackle, and pop.
• "Inexpensive multi-channel audio gear will replicate the sound of the theater in your living room"
  • Utter nonsense unless you want to replicate the sound of a bad theater at home.
• "Replacing your Snell speakers with more efficient Klipsch speakers will allow louder playback on music & soundtracks and not impact sound quality"
  • Let's just say I hated the Klipsch sound immediately and learned to never buy anything without listening to it firsthand. This has been my biggest mistake as an audio consumer. They were, at least, louder - until I got rid of them shortly thereafter.

re the vinyl thing, i know this has been pounded to death here, but there are a set of emotional associations i have with vinyl as a means for listening. it's comforting to me. that doesn't mean that CDs dont reveal more info, etc., but there is a feeling there that i really treasure. it reminds me of picture books: if you look at a first edition of Where The Wild Things Are, which would cost you like $6000, the design is carried through in a much more satisfying manner than in contemporary reissues. the way the paper takes the inks is different, the weight of the paper, and its texture, are more satisfying to hold, etc. i can enjoy reading a 75th printing from 2009 but if i want the real experience, the earlier editions make a real difference. there is emotional content there in those production methods that reproductions can't touch.

 

[Blake Klondike]

Yes I’m prejudiced against software driven audio systems. All in one streaming DAC amplifiers do not appeal to me at all. I want separate components that can be individually chosen and upgraded with no need for an app or software to use it.

With the exclusion of streaming, I prefer the equipment to have no need for software.

i agree-- it is very hard to make using software an enjoyable part of the process. i feel like it activates a different part of my brain to scroll with a mouse. it makes the music seem phony to me.