Do USB Cables Make an Audible Difference (Kimber Kable Review)?

[pkane]

That's fine, I was just asking for a clarification. It seemed like something you wouldn't have overlooked.

I did 5 captures with each cable, switching cables between the captures, then compared them to each other, and to the runs with the same cable. Lush^2 made no audible or measurable difference. I also did follow-up captures on a different day, just to see if there may be noise or interference, or warm-up issues, etc. Still no joy.

 

[don'ttrustauthority]

I did 5 captures with each cable, switching cables between the captures, then compared them to each other, and to the runs with the same cable. Lush^2 made no audible or measurable difference. I also did follow-up captures on a different day, just to see if there may be noise or interference, or warm-up issues, etc. Still no joy.

I am not suprised by the results. It's a very easy signal to transfer for usb.

 

[Marutks]

Audirvana suggested that or someone on their community forum which falls under their support link?

Email: [email protected]

 

[NTK]

I been following this guy for a while on YouTube. He's certain usb cables can make a difference and is audible. But isn't fond of Amir's measurements or credibility. In this video he seems to have come up with a fairly objective test that prove he's right...

Go back 1 page of this thread. You can see Amir's reply and discussions of his test method.

 

[pvanosta]

The question about 'audible difference' is flawed in and of itself. Too many psychological factors come into play when you replace a generic well-built USB cable (say $20) with an expensive one (say $300-$400). All of us who frequent this forum know all too well the impact of confirmation bias where you hear what you expect to hear. Your brain expects/hopes to have this 'wow' moment when plugging in the expensive cable, so it does. When it comes to cables (interconnects, USB, power, etc...), if you can't measure it, don't trust your ears. For that I will always be grateful to Amir and others on this forum

 

[IowAudio]

Like Joe N Tell put it. Everyone THINKS their car is faster after they wash it. In reality its not. Same with audio.

 

[xaviescacs]

Hi,

I have some questions regarding USB cables and measurements.

Currently I'm using a cheap printer USB cable and always have the doubt if a replace makes sense.

QED Cable

Trying to look for measurements in USB cables published by the manufacturers found this cable:

https://www.qed.co.uk/reference-high-resolution-usb.html#tab1

Which has some measurements of the cable performance, not of the output signal of a DAC, but at least is something:

• Characteristic Impedance: 90 Ω +/-5%
• Signal Pair Attenuation: < -0.11 dB/m @ 480 MHz
• Propagation Delay: 26 ns max
• Propagation Delay Skew: 68 ps max
• Maximum Data Rate: 480 Mb/s
• Worst case time related jitter: < 76 ps pk-pk (5 m cable measured at 480 Mb/s; 440 mV rms)

They also have a section with "papers".

https://www.qed.co.uk/cablesmatter

Allo Cable

I saw that they mention the controlled impedance feature and later on found that Allo also sells a USB cable mentioning the same:

https://www.allo.com/sparky-eu/flex-cable.html#features

Questions

Are any of the QED's measurements relevant to the final audio output? Or just electrical characteristics of the cable that exist but doesn't make any difference? If the DAC has its own power supply, does the jitter measurements of USB cables matter at all?

Since Allo seems to be an honest company from the "science" point of view, how do you interpret this? Theoretically, can there be really any audible difference in some system when using a cable with a more accurate impedance? I say theoretically because to some extend I understand that cable manufacturers try to build a good cable based on measurements of the cable itself, and not plugged into a system, simply because they can't assume that there isn't a system out there affected by the quality of the cable. I mean, from their perspective, the fact that no one it's been able so far to pass a blind test of two USB cables doesn't rule out that it could happen some day.

Thanks!!

 

[CMOT]

I am connecting my Mac to my DAC - it is a USB A to B cable. Should I use a silver one, a blue one, or a black one? Has anyone noticed audible differences

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

 

[xaviescacs]

Sorry. I couldn't resist.

You couldn't? Really? Put yourself in my place for one second and consider the possibility to refrain from sending this video as reply. Yes, is that irresistible.

Ok, seriously now, it may be obvious to others, but I'm not sure I'm getting your point. Do you mean that all of this is snake oil? On some videos amir explains that although not audible, there are little differences in USB cables, specially related to length and when using a poor implemented USB powered DAC. Furthermore, he always complains that brands doesn't publish any measurements. Since I found at last some brand that does, I was curious to know if that figures are relevant at all. Although I do have some background in physics, electronics and data protocols, I don't have the required knowledge to assess this subject, so I posted here.

I have the overall impression, after watching amir reviews and observing my USB connected devices faultlessly working day after day, that any USB cable works fine on the data layer and the only issues come from the instability of the voltage level required for some USB powered DACs.

 

[Gekel]

Hi,

I have some questions regarding USB cables and measurements.

Not USB, but SPDIF which results in the same outcome. Here is a true test you can run on your own, with two cables being used to transport the digital audio data from a streamer to a DAC.

The video has all what you need. A blind test where Simon doesn't tell you when he switches cables, the same test where he shows when he switches cables and finally details about the the two cables in scope and their quality aspects.

It's worth the 13 Minutes, and man, cable 2 rocked the boat.

 

[xaviescacs]

It's worth the 13 Minutes, and man, cable 2 rocked the boat.

That was very informative. However, some measurements would have been welcomed.

 

[Gekel]

Why measurements? Just listen to the music on cable 1/2 with the names being displayed. at least I "felt" and I "heard" some differences. Then I listened to the same music without the names being displayed and I didn't hear any differences -> proof of the influence of your brain on the whole mechanism. If you want to hear a difference, you will hear one, and this is the way they sell the Snake oil cables.

And then I saw the technical specs of the cables which clearly showed that any so called influence of whatever materials they wrap around or whatever they use to build such a cable is not really relevant.

It's one of the best videos I found about this topic, and without technical blaa blaa about floor levels, spikes,.... (things a lot of people don't understand) it demonstrates what's going on.

 

[amirm]

Are any of the QED's measurements relevant to the final audio output?

If you are using very long cables, then the better designed one may produce an error free transmission that another may not. In the shorter segments though, for example 1 to 3 meters, it really doesn't make a difference. As long as you are getting reliable playback with no static, device going offline, etc., then the cable is good enough. Being more good doesn't help fidelity.

 

[xaviescacs]

Being more good doesn't help fidelity.

That frees me from the awkward position of having to deny that a cable is better and allows me to put myself in the healthier position of simply saying that I don't need it, despite its better figures. Thanks.

 

[amirm]

The video has all what you need. A blind test where Simon doesn't tell you when he switches cables, the same test where he shows when he switches cables and finally details about the the two cables in scope and their quality aspects.

It's worth the 13 Minutes, and man, cable 2 rocked the boat.

It is all you need but I heard no rocking. I bet you could not at all detect the switching time between the clips the first round. On the second round, the test is no longer blind so that one doesn't count. Download the files he says he has, run them through an ABX tool like foobar2000 and post the results here. You will make major news if you can detect differences.

 

[xaviescacs]

Finally bought this one:

https://www.lindy-international.com...mo-Line.htm?websale8=ld0101.ld020102&pi=36640

Nice quality connectors and very flexible. 100 € saved thanks to ASR.

 

[Skeptischism]

This was too good and near the end, during your monologue I started playing some uplifting ambient house vibes and it turned int this amazing spoken word piece

 

[Dennis_FL]

If you are using very long cables, then the better designed one may produce an error free transmission that another may not. In the shorter segments though, for example 1 to 3 meters, it really doesn't make a difference. As long as you are getting reliable playback with no static, device going offline, etc., then the cable is good enough. Being more good doesn't help fidelity.

It took me months but I finally got rid of the occasional snap, crackle, pop on Tidal, Qobuz, or my local library. Initially I thought it was the 20 ft USB cable and bought a better one. It got better but I still had noise. Then I thought it was the DAC or my computer. So I bought a Raspi 3A and put a Roon bridge on it - sending the digital over WiFi instead of long cable. I still have a very short USB cable from the Pi to the DAC.

Absolutely zero noise now after a month. None, Nada. So it wasn't the DAC. It was either the Mac USB bus, or the long USB cable length?

I was thinking of using my 20 ft cable between the Raspi and the DAC temporarily to see if that was the noise source.....but I just want to enjoy for a while.

 

[Luca_]

Negative. Data is data, and any sort of noise contamination would happen regardless of bit stream.

ARE YOU ABLE TO PROVE THIS STATEMENT SCIENTIFICALLY?

OR BELIEVE YOU ARE THE USUAL EINSTEIN...

 

[SuicideSquid]

ARE YOU ABLE TO PROVE THIS STATEMENT SCIENTIFICALLY?

OR BELIEVE YOU ARE THE USUAL EINSTEIN...

This is the null hypothesis. The burden of proof isn't with the person who says "data is data and a $500 cable won't change that". The burden of proof is with the person who claims their $500 cable will make your system sound better.