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Do USB Audio Cables Make A Difference?

Katji

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There is a new test for durability which a number of USB (no name) vendors are running and advertising now. I bought one cable and it is super robust now. I use long ones on my tablet and used to break one every 6 months.
[...]
BTW, these right angle ones are cool and can reduce stress on the USB jack on tablet and phones.
That test is good news.

The right angle connectors, I noticed that when I was looking for USB C to B recently and saw these on Amazon (apparently well-regarded by DJs in UK)...

1614721370499.png



Right now, though, looking at my laptop, right angle connector would not work there, right next to HDD cable and HDMI cables.

I don't know about ferrite chokes on USB cables though, afaik I haven't seen before.
 
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redstang

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Regarding Supra USB cables...
Yes USB standard specifies standard for shielding, also min. wire diam. (Which probably relates to power/charging not data.)
I needed a 5m cable.
I will trust Supra manufacturing process + QA rather than random/no-name from random vendor especially phone accessories shop.
There are inexpensive USB [and HDMI] cables Lindy and Ugreen that have good reputation / well-regarded by users.

Monoprice USB A to B, 15 ft: $2.45 + shipping. Almost 1000 reviews with 5 star average (although I think the reviews apply to all lengths). Would be interesting to know what you get from Supra for the extra $50 or more for the same cable. Makes me wonder if there's a youtube channel out there willing to destroy expensive cables by tearing them a part to compare their actual construction to see what your money is buying (and maybe seeing if the marketing cutaway graphics are truthful).

I see Monoprice isn't entirely free from audiophile marketing either. They also have a nicer "USB Digital Audio Cable" that runs 10-15 bucks. Now, I could see paying for that if the cable is lighter or more flexible.
 

Katji

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^^^That's another thing I dislike about audiophile brands - they typically have different product ranges in different price brands. And extra snake oil stories about it - to explain why, the good/better/best.

Monoprice wasn't an option when I bought anyway. Nor was Amazon.
 

the_hamster 2

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That test is good news.

The right angle connectors, I noticed that when I was looking for USB C to B recently and saw these on Amazon (apparently well-regarded by DJs in UK)...

View attachment 115892


Right now, though, looking at my laptop, right angle connector would not work there, right next to HDD cable and HDMI cables.

I don't know about ferrite chokes on USB cables though, afaik I haven't seen before.

Bought the Chroma Cable USB cord, nicely made, seemingly durable, but sounds identical to the Amazon Basics
version...as did several others...no surprise there.
 

Lambda

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I don't know about ferrite chokes on USB cables though, afaik I haven't seen before.
Almost all my old good OEM cables have them.
I would say everything that's gonne be plugged in to a pc should have then.
Can't hurt to choke Somme common mode signals.
 

Katji

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Bought the Chroma Cable USB cord, nicely made, seemingly durable, but sounds identical to the Amazon Basics
version...as did several others...no surprise there.

Chroma Cable brand, DJ Techtools. The main thing is the user reviews (DJ/etc., not audiophiles)...often like "I had so much shite with USB cables, eventually got DJ Techtools, end of."
Pro audio a relief from audiophile business. Normal level of marketing schpiel, not lengthy pseudo-science.
 

the_hamster 2

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Chroma Cable brand, DJ Techtools. The main thing is the user reviews (DJ/etc., not audiophiles)...often like "I had so much shite with USB cables, eventually got DJ Techtools, end of."
Pro audio a relief from audiophile business. Normal level of marketing schpiel, not lengthy pseudo-science.
Bought on Amazon based on reviews, per usual...liked design, dual ferrites can’t hurt...not sure what the sellers meant by “audio optimized” - fully shielded?
 

Katji

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Yes, i noticed, not clear if ferrites or shielding.
Ferrites can't hurt. I noticed in another thread, they had problems in a situation with very EMF going on, USB would lose connection, had to reboot, adding ferrite clip-ons stopped it.
...But ferrite chokes not as simple as it seems at first to "layman." Needs to be suitable for specific frequency bands.
 

chris719

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Ferrites can indeed be helpful if they are selected properly. If you have a product that came with a USB cable having ferrites molded in, it probably has them because they were needed to pass compliance testing.

I wonder about some of the really cheap cables on Amazon and if the material is even ferrite.

I have seen some differences in SS USB 5 Gbps cable performance at long distances pushing the spec limits (>= 3m) with a non-audio data acquisition device I designed. It manifests itself as lost data due to buffer overrun. Unfortunately, I saw nothing among cables of equal length that was obviously correlated with performance. One of the best looking and feeling cables was the worst performer. I actually suspect the connector has more to do with it than the cable. I didn't have time to investigate with a protocol analyzer or eye diagram. In any case, this isn't relevant to audio since there are zero audio devices using SuperSpeed or higher USB rates that I know of.
 

mansr

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Yes, i noticed, not clear if ferrites or shielding.
Ferrites can't hurt. I noticed in another thread, they had problems in a situation with very EMF going on, USB would lose connection, had to reboot, adding ferrite clip-ons stopped it.
...But ferrite chokes not as simple as it seems at first to "layman." Needs to be suitable for specific frequency bands.
I've seen USB ports temporarily disabled by interference from high-power load switching near cabling. In that case it was an RS485 dongle adapter, and switching to an isolated model fixed the issues. USB wasn't designed for industrial environments, so using it there often requires taking extra precautions.
 

Gekel

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Short question...

Did anyone ever try to show an audiophile who believes cables matter how USB works at all?

From wiki:

Data packets

A data packet consists of the PID followed by 0–1,024 bytes of data payload (up to 1,024 bytes for high-speed devices, up to 64 bytes for full-speed devices, and at most eight bytes for low-speed devices),[14] and a 16-bit CRC.

The last few words are the technical killer arguments for anyone who knows at least a bit about computers. Every data package sent over the USB port - including all data types transferred over it, no matter if DSD or PCM - is sent in data packages, and each data package has a CRC attached.

So any data package which is altered by some obscure hardware changes (like audiophile USB cables....) resulting in the typical claims of "more bass" "finer high tones" would be dropped by the USB port of the DAC and re requested, as long as this audiophile thing does not also change the CRC.

So as long as the cable is shielded well enough and the cable length is not too long, enough unchanged data packages will make their way from the host (network streamer) to the target (DAC).
 

chris719

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Short question...

Did anyone ever try to show an audiophile who believes cables matter how USB works at all?

From wiki:



The last few words are the technical killer arguments for anyone who knows at least a bit about computers. Every data package sent over the USB port - including all data types transferred over it, no matter if DSD or PCM - is sent in data packages, and each data package has a CRC attached.

So any data package which is altered by some obscure hardware changes (like audiophile USB cables....) resulting in the typical claims of "more bass" "finer high tones" would be dropped by the USB port of the DAC and re requested, as long as this audiophile thing does not also change the CRC.

So as long as the cable is shielded well enough and the cable length is not too long, enough unchanged data packages will make their way from the host (network streamer) to the target (DAC).

You'd be talking to a wall. Even if they understand your argument, they will move on to "causes" that are not data integrity related but things like EMI ingress. These are real things but the magnitude is never discussed. Any rational argument you could make would be met with some kind of unassailable counter-argument.
 

DonH56

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Gekel

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No one mentions the obvious problem, how does a serial digital stream have "bass"?

It has. Somewhere hidden and encoded, starting with the USB data packet which contains the digital audio data (PCM, DSD,....) down to the original signal which can be translated into an analog audio signal.

What these guys really believe is that by exchanging the cheap cable with the expensive snake oil one, they can influence this digital signal.

It is the same misconception they use when looking at ethernet switches. They try to apply analog rules/ideas on digital data. It doesn't work but either they hope for the same wonders the homeopathic stuff does, or they just ignore the fundamentals of digital data transmission.

And not only people without knowledge are affected. I had a short discussion with an sound engineer who on the one side couldn't prove any of the claims (despite having access to hardware to check audio quality) while still defending this idea of sound improvement via placebo.

It's useless.
 

redstang

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Short question...

Did anyone ever try to show an audiophile who believes cables matter how USB works at all?

From wiki:



The last few words are the technical killer arguments for anyone who knows at least a bit about computers. Every data package sent over the USB port - including all data types transferred over it, no matter if DSD or PCM - is sent in data packages, and each data package has a CRC attached.

So any data package which is altered by some obscure hardware changes (like audiophile USB cables....) resulting in the typical claims of "more bass" "finer high tones" would be dropped by the USB port of the DAC and re requested, as long as this audiophile thing does not also change the CRC.

So as long as the cable is shielded well enough and the cable length is not too long, enough unchanged data packages will make their way from the host (network streamer) to the target (DAC).

Not that I agree, but the "audiophile" argument isn't that the digital signal is compromised - it is usually that the cheap/basic cables allow noise to get into the audio signal by the normal analog means. It's that the cable could be transferring noise from the computer, picking up FM or other interference from nearby components, the USB power wires introducing noise into the dac/amp; etc. The fact that this actually can happen in extreme situations or with defective cables gives the argument legs as well. If someone IS actually arguing that the bits are more accurate - well then they can be dismissed. The fact that this noise cannot be measured, or even if it can, is so far below audible levels tends to not matter to them either. "Listening" is the only truth for them.

The audiophile ethernet cables/routers/switches - I imagine some sort of argument for analog interference somehow making it's way into the DAC from them could be dreamt up as well, but that's even more nonsensical.
 

AdamG

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Jinjuku

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The audiophile ethernet cables/routers/switches - I imagine some sort of argument for analog interference somehow making it's way into the DAC from them could be dreamt up as well, but that's even more nonsensical.

You now have them 'rolling' optical transceivers like they are running tubed gear. And the claims are all the same about PRAT, bass, imaging. It's so bonkers because they couldn't do a minimal L2 switch config if their lives depended on it.
 

trl

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Short question...

Did anyone ever try to show an audiophile who believes cables matter how USB works at all?

From wiki:



The last few words are the technical killer arguments for anyone who knows at least a bit about computers. Every data package sent over the USB port - including all data types transferred over it, no matter if DSD or PCM - is sent in data packages, and each data package has a CRC attached.

So any data package which is altered by some obscure hardware changes (like audiophile USB cables....) resulting in the typical claims of "more bass" "finer high tones" would be dropped by the USB port of the DAC and re requested, as long as this audiophile thing does not also change the CRC.

So as long as the cable is shielded well enough and the cable length is not too long, enough unchanged data packages will make their way from the host (network streamer) to the target (DAC).
To backup your words: "If the CRC is not correct, the transfer is not acknowledged and will be retried. If the device is not ready to accept data it can send a negative-acknowledgment, NAK, which will cause the host to retry the transfer", source: https://www.xmos.ai/download/Fundamentals-of-USB-Audio(1.0).pdf
 
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