Do tubes do anything well in circuits?

[LeftCoastTim]

A few reasons @MakeMineVinyl won't give you a hard number:
1. Every person's hearing is different. What might be audible to you may not be to me, and vice versa.
2. It depends on which harmonic/nonharmonic (in the case of IMD) we're talking about - as you get further from the fundamental they're masked less and less, and nonharmonic info is also masked less (so IMD is in a lot of cases somewhat more offensive than harmonic distortion).
3. It depends on listening level. Distortion is less apparent at high volumes because our ears themselves have some intrinsic distortion.
4. It depends on frequency. LF distortion is way less noticeable than distortion in the midrange and presence region - as in, 10% THD for a signal around 40hz is probably juuuuust barely audible, but 1% arouind 1-2k is probably pretty audible.

I don't think it's hard to test every one of these things scientifically. It sounds like 100 people has to do some listening tests, and one could come up with a comprehensive set of contour curves.

But who would want to find out the truth when mystifying "distortion" makes more money?

When a new product is an improvement over the old, it just takes over the market. For example, DVD vs HD vs 4K. What replaced tubes and vinyl?

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I don't think it's hard to test every one of these things scientifically. It sounds like 100 people has to do some listening tests, and one could come up with a comprehensive set of contour curves.

If this means so much to you, you should probably find the time and resources to do this test yourself and publish the results. Saying that somebody else should do the heavy lifting is cheap talk. If it means so much to you DO THE RESEARCH YOURSELF!

 

[LeftCoastTim]

If this means so much to you, you should probably find the time and resources to do this test yourself and publish the results. Saying that somebody else should do the heavy lifting is cheap talk. If it means so much to you DO THE RESEARCH YOURSELF!

See, the lovely thing about the market is that I'm 100% certain the research was already done. If significant results were found, the manufacturers would have made a big deal about it, to sell their stuff. Reputable companies like Genelec, Neumann, Kef, etc would have used it as a selling point. The Japanese manufacturers like Yamaha and Sony would have added it as a feature or a spec. Chip makers like AKM would have added it as a feature. If it actually sounded better than what's out there, they could keep it as a trade secret, and people would buy it because it sounds better.

But none of this happened. All the manufacturers keep their THD below a certain level, and call it a day. The only people talking seriously about "pleasant" and "unpleasant" distortions are tube and audiofool peddlers.

How much research does one need to prove that special cables do nothing? How much research does one need to show that THD below -70db is inaudible? How much research does one need to show that Fiji water is just marketing?

 

[LeftCoastTim]

And of course you are going to be providing links to this "100% certain" research? Or are we to believe it exists, but its just "somewhere out there" in underground vaults manned by guards employed by evil company overlords?

For the record, at my company I haven't seen any of this supposed "research", and we're probably one of the largest audio amplifier manufacturers in the USA. I'm calling bullshit on this one until you can produce some real data.

Hey, both of us are making unsubstantiated claims, backed by nothing, on the internet. But I asked you first.

 

[Doodski]

Fiji water is just marketing?

Fiji water has the best rectangular shaped bottles.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Off topic: Fiji water tastes different than others. In comparison most other water tastes bitter and harsh.

 

[Inner Space]

Off topic: Fiji water tastes different than others. In comparison most other water tastes bitter and harsh.

And the blue tint in the bottle catches the light through the water in a manner that is somehow deeply submarine.

 

[JohnYang1997]

And the blue tint in the bottle catches the light through the water in a manner that is somehow deeply submarine.

I did a blind test a few months ago. With different water poured in glass. Somehow smoother but less refreshing.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Uses for tube amps. I used all tube separates up until 1.5 years ago. A speaker change from 96 db at 8 ohms to 90 db at 5 ohms drove changing to good solid state. The tube amps did a great job driving the more efficient 8 ohm load, but the solid state does a better job with the lower efficiency 5 ohm load. My experience tells me that matching efficiency and impedance plots has greater importance with tube amps - if you want good transparency. Looking at measurements may lean you towards solid state, but if the speaker used is easy to drive with tubes you may not hear any difference. Tube amps can have greater aesthetic appearance and can be conversation starters - that could be a good reason if their appearance is desired. Tube amps are easy to fix - especially point to point designs. Other than re-biasing on occasion and replacing tubes they are low maintenance. If you want to build a tube amp - that can be fun and rewarding.
If the speakers chosen are a good match to the tube amp in question - it may just be a matter of personal preference. Given the number of tube and solid state choices available - there is a wide range of personal choices being made.

 

[restorer-john]

I did a blind test a few months ago. With different water poured in glass. Somehow smoother but less refreshing.

Water is so easy to compare isn't it? We can taste the difference easily, completely blind (it is clear after all) of the same water, from the same dam, from different areas in our city. All to do with the pipes, treatment plants and length/age/type of the pipes used.

We've done it multiple times. Take the same jugs of water, let them sit for 6 hours, taste and compare. Our water is wonderful, gets pumped direct from the dam, direct to the processing plant and sits 170m above sea level in our area's small cement reservior. Low usage, long time sitting. Yes, it is a little 'hard' but just gorgeous to drink.

I go to my parent's place, just 10 minutes away from us, same dam, but different distribution and much more poly pipes and the water tastes different. Not bad, but different.

 

[escksu]

I think the more likely reason would be that the whole audio hobby will whither and die off, being replaced by 'lifestyle' components which are heard but not seen.

I personally do not think audio hobby will whither and die. However, it will likely reduce over time. More and more companies will likely fold or merge to survive. High end audio manufacturers will still survive since they cater for a different market. However, mainstream ones may not.

 

[escksu]

Off topic: Fiji water tastes different than others. In comparison most other water tastes bitter and harsh.

I guess it might be due to mineral content and how we are used to the taste of tap water. Eg. Many pple find that distilled water has a certain taste even though its tasteless.

 

[watchnerd]

They'll stand a nuclear EM pulse much better than most SS device, so after WW3, you'll be able to use your Dynaco amp when all the others are burnt out.

I'll be charging gold coins to come listen to my LPs and reel to reel.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I'll be charging gold coins to come listen to my LPs and reel to reel.

I don't know if the ability of magnetic tape to hold its signal in the presence of a nuclear burst has ever been studied, or at least studied and published. I do have a manual "The Effects of Nuclear Weapons" and it doesn't address magnetic media. The book does come with a nifty calculator which allows you to determine how fucked you're going to be, given the yield and proximity of a nuclear blast.

 

[watchnerd]

I don't know if the ability of magnetic tape to hold its signal in the presence of a nuclear burst has ever been studied, or at least studied and published. I do have a manual "The Effects of Nuclear Weapons" and it doesn't address magnetic media. The book does come with a nifty calculator which allows you to determine how fucked you're going to be, given the yield and proximity of a nuclear blast.

Well, the LPs should be fine, then

 

[LarryRS]

Do tubes do anything well in circuits?​

Yes. Play music.

 

[watchnerd]

Do tubes do anything well in circuits?​

Yes. Play music.

They look cool, too.

And you can have fun with tube rolling insanity.

 

[Jim Shaw]

Having lived as an electrical engineer through the latter part of the vacuum tube era, I can say this:

"Vacuum tubes are much like a dog walking on his hind legs; he doesn't do it well, or for very long, but it's remarkable that he does it at all."
-apologies to Doctor Samuel Johnson (1709-1789)

I am nostalgic for vacuum tubes like I'm not nostalgic for lead pipes in water systems and steam locomotives on freight trains.

 

[ajawamnet]

Still used as the beam source for X-rays, CT and mammography.

Tho there are solid-state models, a lot of FM's use a tube similar to this:

Goes over this co-ax:

Note that the copper pipe in the background is actually rigid co-ax


and used in this:

To connect to this:

FM Broadcast Products - Continental Electronics

contelec.com

 

[Cbdb2]

Off topic: Fiji water tastes different than others. In comparison most other water tastes bitter and harsh.

As stated by Cleveland water quality manager Maggie Rodgers, “6.31 micrograms of arsenic per liter in the Fiji bottle” was found. A safe level of arsenic that humans can consume is 10 micrograms per liter.Mar. 10, 2021