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Do I need an external amp?

MuseIcal

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Hi,

After listening to Van Halen at a moderate volume, (0-98 scale - with volume set on 55) the tweeters in my one year old Monitor Audio S 200s being powered by my Denon AVR X6500H are shot. Blown. No sound emanating from within the MA boxes... They have ceased to be. They are no more...
I was/am a little surprised. And, disappointed. Power is clean. No surge protection. Dedicated twenty amp outlet/breaker.

Having read that blown drivers can be caused by 'under powered' amps, I'm wondering if I should consider getting an external amp.
The Denon AVR X6500H has a stated power of 140 watts per channel, two channels driven. To me, that seems like enough power for all but the hungriest of speakers. The MA S 200s are easy to drive.

I'm thinking about an Apollon amp of some type. Maybe around 250 watts per channel two channels driven(?).

I'm not sure what happened or what my next move should be.

I'm open to suggestions and any help will be very much appreciated.

Thanks

P.S. I'm currently auditioning a pair of Focal Chora 826. The MA S 200s will be taken out of the mix and replaced with another speaker.
 

AnalogSteph

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This is what I get when I search for Monitor Audio S200 - a wireless speaker. I'm pretty sure you didn't mean that one. Maybe the 2.5-way Silver 200? It shouldn't be that easy to blow a tweeter these days, the days of first-order crossovers are generally behind us, and you don't clip a 140 wpc amplifier with music that's not extremely bass-heavy without making quite a racket with 89 dB / 2.83 V / m speakers.

Looking up some pictures of the Silver 200s, it seems they can be biwired. I would suggest redoing the wiring at the speakers, making sure the LF/HF bridges are clean, etc. Tweeters shouldn't just die at what seems to be entirely moderate volume.
 
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MuseIcal

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This is what I get when I search for Monitor Audio S200 - a wireless speaker. I'm pretty sure you didn't mean that one. Maybe the 2.5-way Silver 200? It shouldn't be that easy to blow a tweeter these days, the days of first-order crossovers are generally behind us, and you don't clip a 140 wpc amplifier with music that's not extremely bass-heavy without making quite a racket with 89 dB / 2.83 V / m speakers.

Looking up some pictures of the Silver 200s, it seems they can be biwired. I would suggest redoing the wiring at the speakers, making sure the LF/HF bridges are clean, etc. Tweeters shouldn't just die at what seems to be entirely moderate volume.

Hi @AnalogSteph and thanks for the reply.

This is what I have;

https://www.whathifi.com/us/monitor-audio/silver-200/review

Yes, they are the Silver Series and not the Airstream. I apologize for not being more clear.

I'm both shocked and disappointed that the tweeters died. Whole heartedly agree with you that this should not have happened.
Still waiting to hear back from MA on how to proceed with getting the new tweeters.

For clarification, are you saying that when/if I get my new tweeters I should bi-amp the speakers?
Hm.. That would be cheaper, much cheaper, than getting an external amp.
 

AnalogSteph

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For clarification, are you saying that when/if I get my new tweeters I should bi-amp the speakers?
Hm.. That would be cheaper, much cheaper, than getting an external amp.
No, I wasn't saying that. I was merely implying that having biwiring terminals adds an extra potential trouble source when it comes to bad contact, and that things back there should be checked diligently before you conclude that the tweeters are actually gone - something that can only be determined with some certainty with a multimeter at the tweeter's terminals.

You could obviously try to biamp if your AVR allows for it - there would be very little reduction in output stage loading, but at least any clipping due to bass/midrange output couldn't fry the tweeter.

BTW: The Focals basically look like a step in the right direction but the 2.9 ohm minimum impedance seems a bit worrying when the Denon appears to be spec'd for nominal 6 ohms at best. (AVRs have the heat from many power amps to contend with, so would be running fairly low bias, which in turn doesn't exactly improve performance into low impedances.) Even a nominal 4 ohm speaker should not be dipping below 3.2 ohms (80% of nominal). The Silver 200s are barely passing as 6 ohms at least. I would prefer something more along those lines for the new speakers.
 
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MuseIcal

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he Focals basically look like a step in the right direction but the 2.9 ohm minimum impedance seems a bit worrying when the Denon appears to be spec'd for nominal 6 ohms at best.

Funny you mention this. The Focals look great, however, right out of the box the sound was very flat. Almost muffled. The bass is predominate yet loose(?). The sound is more like someone slapping a sofa cushion rather than a kick drum.
Then, there's the issue of 'phase'. Audyssey keeps throwing error/warning that the speakers are out of phase. It's only corrected when speakers are 'wired' in reverse polarity at the speaker.

Crutchfield has agreed to take the Focal speakers back.

Now I'm considering a pair of Revel Concerta2 F35 or a pair of Wharfdale EVO 4.3. I'm leaning more toward the Revels.
It's a 6ohm speaker. The EVO are listed at 8 ohms, but they could dip far below that.

So this leads me back to the question of getting an external amp. It would be nice to avoid this expense, but, if I have to get an external, then I'll do it.

The Denon should be enough to power the Revels. However, I thought it would be enough to power the Monitor Audio S 200.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-13QWtqGHW06/p_336EVO43BK/Wharfedale-EVO4-3-Black.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-13QWtqGHW06/p_336EVO43BK/Wharfedale-EVO4-3-Black.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_265F35BKA/Revel-Concerta2-F35-High-Gloss-Black.html

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_265F35BKA/Revel-Concerta2-F35-High-Gloss-Black.html

Apologies if it seems I'm going in circles. Everyone's help is very much appreciated!
 

escksu

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I find it hard to believe that the tweeter is blow. Because its usually the woofer cone that is more susceptible. Have you tried to check if its crossover issue instead of tweeter?

If its a surge or something, its usually the woofer cone that is killed instead. There is a resistor in the crossover that limits the power to tweeter.
 

Beershaun

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Agreed. I was thinking maybe a problem in your speaker for the tweeter to blow. Maybe the crossover is bad?
 
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MuseIcal

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I find it hard to believe that the tweeter is blow. Because its usually the woofer cone that is more susceptible. Have you tried to check if its crossover issue instead of tweeter?

If its a surge or something, its usually the woofer cone that is killed instead. There is a resistor in the crossover that limits the power to tweeter.

Thanks for your thoughts!

I put my ear to the tweeter while playing the same content, and there was no sound coming from the tweeter. Not a scientific approach really, but this and what I have been told by an MA representative, while this may not be 100% accurate, it leads me to believe it's the tweeters.
The speakers are boxed and going out to a repair facility. Their diagnostics should get to the root of the problem...I hope...
It's odd to me that this happened in the first place. Fortunately, the speakers are still under warranty.
 

Martin

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Hi,

After listening to Van Halen at a moderate volume, (0-98 scale - with volume set on 55) the tweeters in my one year old Monitor Audio S 200s being powered by my Denon AVR X6500H are shot. Blown. No sound emanating from within the MA boxes... They have ceased to be. They are no more...
I was/am a little surprised. And, disappointed. Power is clean. No surge protection. Dedicated twenty amp outlet/breaker.

Having read that blown drivers can be caused by 'under powered' amps, I'm wondering if I should consider getting an external amp.
The Denon AVR X6500H has a stated power of 140 watts per channel, two channels driven. To me, that seems like enough power for all but the hungriest of speakers. The MA S 200s are easy to drive.

I'm thinking about an Apollon amp of some type. Maybe around 250 watts per channel two channels driven(?).

I'm not sure what happened or what my next move should be.

I'm open to suggestions and any help will be very much appreciated.

Thanks

P.S. I'm currently auditioning a pair of Focal Chora 826. The MA S 200s will be taken out of the mix and replaced with another speaker.

Love the Monty Python reference. ;)
 
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