Do I need an AMP/DAC to have the maximum of what I'am able to hear?

[Nucleurus]

Hello guys,

I have now read a lot here in the forum to inquire whether I really need an AMP and / or DAC to provide my current headphones, or others I might have later, with the best possible audio quality / performance. (As far as that is humanly audible).

When I see device reviews here like the Fiio K5 Pro or other devices from 60€ upwards, then I wonder where the real difference is here between a dongle from eg Apple is (pure sound quality, audible). (I know I'm throwing DAC and AMP together here).

If I interpret what I read here correctly, I don't need an DAC for the PC as long as my internal sound card doesn't have any hearable noise pollution. If there is noise pollution, then an external DAC would make sense. In this case a USB dongle should be enough?

Briefly regarding various myths, you can say a good DAC is a working one, right? So there is actually, no REAL performance differences (aside from production quality).

My current setup: PC with an internal soundchip (ALC1220) and Beyerdynamics DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm. I ordered the Fiio K5 Pro a few days ago, and unfortunately had to realize that I could not detect any audible difference between my previous setup and the Fiio K5 Pro.

Regarding AMP: Do I really need an AMP? DT 700 are loud enough with my ALC1220. I can't judge the about the audio quality, but I can't tell any difference from the Fiio K5 Pro.

I have no problem with spending 200€ for a good setup, but if I see that a 20€ setup gives me more or less the same result, then in doubt I would prefer the 20€ setup.


TLDR: I do not need snake oil, but simply a setup which allows me to hear the maximum audible possible (humanly).

Your help is very much appreciated.

 

[twsecrest]

DT770 would likely sound it's best connected to a tube (OTL) headphone amplifier.
I would have replaced the DT770, before buying the FiiO K5 Pro.

 

[Nucleurus]

DT770 would likely sound it's best connected to a tube (OTL) headphone amplifier.
I would have replaced the DT770, before buying the FiiO K5 Pro.

No need to worry, I've already returned the FiiO on amazon.

 

[dachiznitt]

Hello guys,

I have now read a lot here in the forum to inquire whether I really need an AMP and / or DAC to provide my current headphones, or others I might have later, with the best possible audio quality / performance. (As far as that is humanly audible).

When I see device reviews here like the Fiio K5 Pro or other devices from 60€ upwards, then I wonder where the real difference is here between a dongle from eg Apple is (pure sound quality, audible). (I know I'm throwing DAC and AMP together here).

If I interpret what I read here correctly, I don't need an DAC for the PC as long as my internal sound card doesn't have any hearable noise pollution. If there is noise pollution, then an external DAC would make sense. In this case a USB dongle should be enough?

Briefly regarding various myths, you can say a good DAC is a working one, right? So there is actually, no REAL performance differences (aside from production quality).

My current setup: PC with an internal soundchip (ALC1220) and Beyerdynamics DT 770 Pro 80 Ohm. I ordered the Fiio K5 Pro a few days ago, and unfortunately had to realize that I could not detect any audible difference between my previous setup and the Fiio K5 Pro.

Regarding AMP: Do I really need an AMP? DT 700 are loud enough with my ALC1220. I can't judge the about the audio quality, but I can't tell any difference from the Fiio K5 Pro.

I have no problem with spending 200€ for a good setup, but if I see that a 20€ setup gives me more or less the same result, then in doubt I would prefer the 20€ setup.


TLDR: I do not need snake oil, but simply a setup which allows me to hear the maximum audible possible (humanly).

Your help is very much appreciated.

Besides the hardware, it's important to make sure the full "audio chain" is setup properly. From the source music quality, the software used to play, and whether the software is configured to use the DAC "properly" and bypass other software modifications to the audio stream. At a minimum, using a streaming service that allows exclusive control of the DAC that also has HD music is the easiest way that I have found to do a quick comparison between setups. i.e. Amazon Music HD streaming service allows exclusive access to the DAC via it's software on a Windows PC. When I enable that, it's very obvious and better sounding.

Hope this helps.

 

[Nucleurus]

Besides the hardware, it's important to make sure the full "audio chain" is setup properly. From the source music quality, the software used to play, and whether the software is configured to use the DAC "properly" and bypass other software modifications to the audio stream. At a minimum, using a streaming service that allows exclusive control of the DAC that also has HD music is the easiest way that I have found to do a quick comparison between setups. i.e. Amazon Music HD streaming service allows exclusive access to the DAC via it's software on a Windows PC. When I enable that, it's very obvious and better sounding.

Hope this helps.

I use foobar for music and my whole libary is flac in cd quality. Do you think that this is sufficient? I also tried (via component) WASAPI in foobar. unfortunately that didn't help.

edit: Windows audio settings for the device: 32bit 192000hz and I also tried 32 bits 48000hz and 24 bits 48000hz.

Thank you very much for your help.

 

[highpurityusbcable]

If you don't need this gear for your usage scenarios, if you don't hear the difference then don't bother. Maybe you will encounter the need for it later with certain power hungry headphones or especially in-ear monitors, because motherboard audio usually has high output impedance which would cause them to perform poorly. When you will need it there will be probably even more choices than now.

 

[Nucleurus]

If you don't need this gear for your usage scenarios

Simply, enjoying music. I thought it would be better, with (presumably) better hardware.

Maybe you will encounter the need for it later with certain power hungry headphones or especially in-ear monitors, because motherboard audio usually has high output impedance which would cause them to perform poorly.

Wouldn't be then an AMP sufficient?

When you will need it there will be probably even more choices than now.

What do you mean about even more choices?

 

[twsecrest]

I use Foobar for music and my whole libary is flac in cd quality. Do you think that this is sufficient? I also tried (via component) WASAPI in Foobar. unfortunately that didn't help.
edit: Windows audio settings for the device: 32bit 192000hz and I also tried 32 bits 48000hz and 24 bits 48000hz.
Thank you very much for your help.

Did you double check and make sure the WASAPI is fully installed?

 

[dachiznitt]

I use foobar for music and my whole libary is flac in cd quality. Do you think that this is sufficient? I also tried (via component) WASAPI in foobar. unfortunately that didn't help.

edit: Windows audio settings for the device: 32bit 192000hz and I also tried 32 bits 48000hz and 24 bits 48000hz.

Thank you very much for your help.

FLAC format is great as long as the source was also a good recording. Not all CD's and recordings are great. There are threads elsewhere with people sharing albums that they use to test with. Foobar with WASAPI installed and working properly should produce the best quality the DAC / AMP can produce. If you can hear audio coming from any other software while your music is playing out of foobar, then it isn't in exclusive mode and not configured properly.

As others stated though, if it's not noticeable to you, then just enjoy what you have. Nothing wrong with that.

I was chasing the same thing a while back and ended up with several great hardware setups. However, the biggest difference and improvement to enjoying the sound was learning to measure and EQ my speakers. For headphones, using presets from Oratory (Link below) was very noticeable. Maybe that's all you're looking for.

index/list_of_presets - oratory1990 (reddit.com)

 

[watchnerd]

Well, I just run my headphones out of the pre-out of my amp as specified by the manufacturer.

No need for a separate headphone amp / DAC.

With <1 ohm of output impedance and 4V it works pretty well.

 

[highpurityusbcable]

Wouldn't be then an AMP sufficient?

Yes, having an amp is always a good and "future-proof" option.

What do you mean about even more choices?

Audio industry develops new devices for different price categories very often. Maybe there will be even better price/performance budget amp very soon.
As far as combo goes, if you don't want unnecessary clutter on your desk, and maybe if you need something on the go, try looking into E1DA 9038D. If you want a desktop amplifier then it depends on where you live and what's easier to buy.

 

[jasonhanjk]

For me I can't hear the small difference. I know there's difference because I felt fatigue with one of my Marantz CD player which have a post dac pre-amp.
Maybe sell the fiio and get a diy 4556 amp with 2 batteries will be enough for you.

 

[Nucleurus]

Did you double check and make sure the WASAPI is fully installed?

yes it is, I even tried to notice a difference by using some vst plugins with my komplete kontrol keyboard (Komplete Kontrol software, that is WASAPI by default). No way to identify any change in sound/quality. I guess I've just a good implementation of the ALC1220.

For me I can't hear the small difference. I know there's difference because I felt fatigue with one of my Marantz CD player which have a post dac pre-amp.
Maybe sell the fiio and get a diy 4556 amp with 2 batteries will be enough for you.

I already returned the fiio

Any advice / recommendations regarding AMP? I heard that the Atom is good enough.