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Do I need a streamer?

ZolaIII

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And any deacent desktop DAC will be equped with exactly that, a military grade precise oscillators (clocks) along with deacent enclosure and EMI shielding and separate attendant power supply line. Unfortunately not one will be paird with a good up to date networking or software for it.
 

NTK

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Would anyone be so kind to explain to me the "jargon" of streamer seller about the PC producing bad "jitter" and need more precise "clock"? I know how master clock in studio work, like Grimm CC1. But does PC need a "reclocker", or is PC producing some kind of jitter or noise that needed to be taken care of by some "audio-purpose PC" (which is the streamer)?
If you are using USB to connect your PC to your DAC, then the clock makes absolutely zero difference (as long as the signal is within spec and the data passed between the PC and DAC remain intact). The reason is simply that USB communications is asynchronous and runs at a completely different clock rate from the one used by actual DAC chip (see figure from the XMOS USB Audio Design Guide). Since the signal is "reclocked" after it is decoded from the USB transimission anyway, the signal timing in the original USB transmission is irrelevant.

USB Audio.PNG

There are several threads and and a video from Amir on this often misunderstood and misrepresented subject.
 

watchnerd

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And any deacent desktop DAC will be equped with exactly that, a military grade precise oscillators (clocks) along with deacent enclosure and EMI shielding and separate attendant power supply line. Unfortunately not one will be paird with a good up to date networking or software for it.

Just feed a Pi into a $199 Schiit Modius.
 

BDWoody

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Would anyone be so kind to explain to me the "jargon" of streamer seller about the PC producing bad "jitter" and need more precise "clock"? I know how master clock in studio work, like Grimm CC1. But does PC need a "reclocker", or is PC producing some kind of jitter or noise that needed to be taken care of by some "audio-purpose PC" (which is the streamer)?

On a semi-related note, this site will let you hear what jitter sounds like, and how 'bad' it has to be in order TO hear it.

 

watchnerd

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On a semi-related note, this site will let you hear what jitter sounds like, and how 'bad' it has to be in order TO hear it.


Sounds like tubes.
 

BDWoody

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Trell

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This is nonsense. Any decent DAC will deal with this. And any PC will serve as a good source. Do not let them rip you off, and take your business elsewhere.
There are DACs reviewed on ASR that have real issues with SPDIF (getting/keeping) connections, as seen from posts in the review threads. Those DACs are measuring really good.
 

ZolaIII

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I think they run out of stock of old DAC's with interfaces for them (Toslinks, SPDIFs)SoM board's around year ago in China (SMSL, Topping...) and didn't had a decent substitute for it as (standard is old) but I might be wrong.
Edit: If that's what you asked in the first place.
 

Trell

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As I wrote some users have problems when connecting some of their devices to the DAC as in not getting a stable SPDIF signal lock, but have the said source devices working on other DACs.

From an audible point of view this is apparent.
 
OP
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If you are using USB to connect your PC to your DAC, then the clock makes absolutely zero difference (as long as the signal is within spec and the data passed between the PC and DAC remain intact). The reason is simply that USB communications is asynchronous and runs at a completely different clock rate from the one used by actual DAC chip (see figure from the XMOS USB Audio Design Guide). Since the signal is "reclocked" after it is decoded from the USB transimission anyway, the signal timing in the original USB transmission is irrelevant.

View attachment 169895

There are several threads and and a video from Amir on this often misunderstood and misrepresented subject.
Thank you very very much. Does that mean all USB card like JCAT, Innos, and Ideon are just completely bullshit because they claim to 'transform' the usb?
 

ZolaIII

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Thank you very very much. Does that mean all USB card like JCAT, Innos, and Ideon are just completely bullshit because they claim to 'transform' the usb?
Lol. You reminded me about fuss they made couple of days ago why some USB cables don't work as intended or at all with new Google Pixel phones. Because Google always insisted on proper attendant (57 KHz resistor) USB cable's.
Deacent desktop DAC will have this taken care of and won't use USB power. Things are little harder when design needs to be as small as possible and work in pretty much hash conditions like USB thumb drive like mobile DAC's but even there you have great designs. So in other words most of that stuff doesn't do anything and if it does it's probably already been taken care of.
 
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Eddy

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I would like to stream Spotify Premium (via Spotify Connect) and Tidal (via Tidal Connect) to my RME ADI-2 DAC. I have already tried several streaming transports: Raspberry Pi 4 with several OS (Volumio Virtuoso, Moode, Raspotify), with LAN or WLAN, connected via USB to the DAC; Bluesound NODE (2021) with LAN, connected via Toslink to the DAC. Unfortunately, none of these attempts resulted in a stable streaming connection. Again and agin interruptions, the streamer is not found, etc. It's so annoying... Perhaps the cause is not the streaming transport itself but my network router, but I cannot change anything on the network (for various reasons).

Now I am planning to connect my tablet (Samsung Galaxy Tab S5e, Android 11), on which the Spotify and Tidal app runs and with which I have previously controlled the streaming transports, to the DAC directly with a cable via the USB-C output.

Is there any disadvantage in terms of sound quality compared to a (functioning) dedicated streaming transport?
 

Jim Matthews

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I would like to stream Spotify Premium (via Spotify Connect) and Tidal (via Tidal Connect) to my RME ADI-2 DAC.

Is there any disadvantage in terms of sound quality compared to a (functioning) dedicated streaming transport?
None that I have heard, to date.

The difference really is convenience. Also, you have alluded to the essential problem with bandwidth limitations.

When my entire family is home, streaming my favorite radio station are common.
 

Morla

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Android does down/upsampling in the mixer so unless you use an app with dedicated dac support (tidal lately?) there are (maybe academic) differences.

P.S. I use a nvidia shield pro
 

Zensō

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I would like to stream Spotify Premium (via Spotify Connect) and Tidal (via Tidal Connect) to my RME ADI-2 DAC. I have already tried several streaming transports: Raspberry Pi 4 with several OS (Volumio Virtuoso, Moode, Raspotify), with LAN or WLAN, connected via USB to the DAC; Bluesound NODE (2021) with LAN, connected via Toslink to the DAC. Unfortunately, none of these attempts resulted in a stable streaming connection. Again and agin interruptions, the streamer is not found, etc. It's so annoying... Perhaps the cause is not the streaming transport itself but my network router, but I cannot change anything on the network (for various reasons).

Now I am planning to connect my tablet (Samsung Galaxy Tab S5e, Android 11), on which the Spotify and Tidal app runs and with which I have previously controlled the streaming transports, to the DAC directly with a cable via the USB-C output.

Is there any disadvantage in terms of sound quality compared to a (functioning) dedicated streaming transport?
This is undoubtedly a network issue. Direct connection of the tablet is unlikely to solve this, though it’s worth a try since there will be no difference in sound quality.
 

Marco54

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I also own Kii three.
Streaming Qobuz 99% of listening time.
First streaming device was a Daphile PC via USB, good but no magic
Daphile PC > USB/spdif converter ( good, perhaps better ) again no magic
Auralic Aries femto with Linear power supply, good+, no magic via USB or Aes or coax spdif
I found in the cellar a 20 years old device named Monarchy Audio DIP. It’s a spdif reclocker. It’s limited to 44khz, 16 bit.
On the Aries i set CD quality ( of course no Hires )
Magic: Kii are are really a very revealing audio system, but what you get into is strategic.
Magic means more music: every song is listenable, bass is when bass is, voice is beauty, dynamic is palpabile. Music has body, when there is body in the master. Live records wow. No glare, no greyish.
So Dip Made a miracle? Yes a small, but miracle.
consideration: Auralic femto, despite the name is jittery; Kii input circuits , as good as they are, aren’t able to govern a jittery source.
My CD transport, Philips based, is a very good spdif source and the amelioration by Dip is marginal, indeed. I worked the spdif output as Lampizator explains. CD sound very, very good.
conclusion: if you have a system like Kii, in which the Dac is integrated, you have to work to input a spdif source that is the least jittery possible.
If you want remain with PC as a source you can try modern usb/spdif converter ( Singxer, gustard, denafrips).
I stay with Auralic because the software is very good. Next move is a Mutec mc3 smart clock ( spdif only reclocker )
There is also a Mutec version with usb in that can fit your needs.
Greetings.
 
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