Do I need a preamp?

[Esprit]

Offer to sell the pre-amp to the next insisting expert and when needed buy a switch box to add sources. Amir has tested many.

Currently the DAC inputs are enough for me, I don't use analogue sources.

 

[JIW]

I believe, but obviously I could be wrong, that there is some internal control, limiter.

There is. It is in the manual (download link) on page 9. Besides, for your own safety, you can always estimate SPL at the DAC's full volume if you know the SPL for a given attenuation of the DAC's signal going into the speaker.

 

[Esprit]

I've had them for almost ten years and previously had Dynaudio and Bryston (pre and amp).
Since the preamp is still at my house, every now and then someone "insists".

 

[JIW]

Generally*, adding something to the chain from source to loudspeaker (all else being equal) will, as noted already, only add noise or distortion.
That noted, I would like to underscore @dualazmak 's "safety" comment. Better living through digitalization of everything has given us source components that will occasionally (seemingly) randomly switch to full output -- with potentially very deleterious results. Consequently, having some level limiting in the chain isn't such a terrible idea.

________________
* and remember all generalizations are false, including this one.

With anything that adds a volume control after the output of the source, noise can be reduced because the noise of the source can be attenuated at the cost of adding noise from the volume control and other added components. This is of course relevant for a pre-amplifier.

Also, if you don't add an amplifier between the DAC's output and any passive loudspeaker you are going to have a severe impedance mismatch and low power due to low current availability. For the case in point of a DAC connected to an active loudspeaker, this is of course not relevant.

 

[Petrushka]

As you can read in my post above, I do this directly with the speaker controls.

This may be blindingly obvious, but my amp input is set so that it cannot go louder than the maximum I will ever want. Which isn’t very loud. I have had several episodes of digital volume control misbehavior.

The most recent was caused by picking up my tablet late at night with my thumb on the control.

 

[Timcognito]

This may be blindingly obvious, but my amp input is set so that it cannot go louder than the maximum I will ever want. Which isn’t very loud. I have had several episodes of digital volume control misbehavior.

The most recent was caused by picking up my tablet late at night with my thumb on the control.

Yes, I love controlling my systems with a tablet but volume and song selection instant changes is very annoying. Wish the software guys would offer a double click option.

 

[Waxx]

A preamp is a device that brings the signal to the format that the amp expect and regulates the volume and source. If your dac can do that, it's also a preamp and so no need for another one. I use my minidsp flex like that in one of my setups. The amps are direct connected, and the sources also because it's not only a dsp and a dac, but also a preamp. It has a volume control (even a remote), a source selector and buffers the output to fit a standard amplifier behind each output channel.

I also got preamps in storage, because i don't need them for the moment for most of my setups. or the dac can do it, or the amp is an integrated amp with a volume control and enough inputs for the sources connected. I even thought about selling some of them (Someone need a revisioned Luxman CP-2 from 1983?)

 

[Esprit]

If your dac can do that,

SMSL D-6s Balanced DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the SMSL D-6s balanced stereo DAC with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $199. I was pleasantly surprised with the new industrial design which while minimalistic, manages to impress with its modern style. Love the matt...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Waxx]

that dac has a preamp build in, with volume contol and buffered outputs with enough voltage so no need for an extra analog preamp i think. Only when you don't use a analog source like a turntable you will need one (but you don't i thought).

 

[Mikig]

I always maintain that there are preamplifiers that are more suited to the power amps we own in terms of impedance, that it should be in a ratio of at least 1:10. Dacs almost always have the same value. And this is not a secondary factor. Furthermore, as I always say, see Amirm's test (Smsl DO300) many Dacs have the best performance with the volume, of the Dac obviously, at maximum or at 0 dB. So using it as a preamplifier almost always means giving up the best performance of the Dac itself...

 

[JIW]

I always maintain that there are preamplifiers that are more suited to the power amps we own in terms of impedance, that it should be in a ratio of at least 1:10. Dacs almost always have the same value. And this is not a secondary factor. Furthermore, as I always say, see Amirm's test (Smsl DO300) many Dacs have the best performance with the volume, of the Dac obviously, at maximum or at 0 dB. So using it as a preamplifier almost always means giving up the best performance of the Dac itself...

It reduces the performance of the DAC the same way it reduces the performance of the preamplifier to turn down its volume. If the noise of the preamplifier and its volume control is higher than that of the DAC, there is no benefit to using it.

 

[Trangbar]

I have triggered the dreaded 0dB volume through my MiniDSP SHD. It seems that it reset the volume when a DSD file lined up to play. Luckily I had access to the remote in my hand and the song (SRV's Tin Pan Alley) has a low volume start. So I am not so sure about it being a rare occurrence. I am wondering if the DIRAC processing could not take place with the DSD and then just set the volume to 0.

 

[Mikig]

It reduces the performance of the DAC the same way it reduces the performance of the preamplifier to turn down its volume. If the noise of the preamplifier and its volume control is higher than that of the DAC, there is no benefit to using it.

you're right, but now there are preamps like Benchmark, Topping Pre90 etc that have noise and distortion performances often better than most of the measured Dacs. So this risk disappears.

 

[JIW]

you're right, but now there are preamps like Benchmark, Topping Pre90 etc that have noise and distortion performances often better than most of the measured Dacs. So this risk disappears.

The noise of the DACs is already so low that there is no benefit really except for some extreme cases.

 

[dualazmak]

I have triggered the dreaded 0dB volume through my MiniDSP SHD. It seems that it reset the volume when a DSD file lined up to play. Luckily I had access to the remote in my hand and the song (SRV's Tin Pan Alley) has a low volume start. So I am not so sure about it being a rare occurrence. I am wondering if the DIRAC processing could not take place with the DSD and then just set the volume to 0.

Even though my multichannel multiamplifier system is one of rather "extreme" active audio setups, I am always very much careful in avoiding such "accidental" issues!

In addition of using HiFi "integrated" amplifiers in analog domain, I am always careful about "startup/ignition sequences" and "shutdown sequences" as I wrote at the end portion of my post #931 on my project thread.
- The latest system setup of my DSP-based multichannel multi-SP-driver multi-amplifier fully active audio rig, including updated startup/ignition sequences and shutdown sequences: as of June 26, 2024: #931

Whenever I would change major configuration (Player, DSP, Routing, Windows Sounds, etc.) on PC as well as any physical change in audio gears, I do turn the most-upstream (usually JRiver MC) master volume to zero (minus infinity) and set all the integrated amplifiers in zero volume, while all the output gains of DAC8PRO are kept at -4 dB.

 

[OldHvyMec]

I've always used a preamp for a few reasons, tone control, a tape loop, and added sources that are easy to access for recording, to and from.

I'm a big Mac fan and most have dual phono sections. Simply put, I like to be able to manipulate the source on older records, (78s in particular)
and quite a few CDs that I have. Some early CDs can boil even my old ears.

Mac also uses a variable loudness that is unique to their older pres. My newer preamps from Mac call the feature "Trim".
Depending on the model 2-7 (I think C50s have 5 or 7) tone controls.

I've personally never found a need for anything other than a bass contour on the older Macs like the C20, C11, C22, variable loudness (trim)
and two (2) pot tone control, with a balance function.

The newer models with Trim (the wife currently uses) I use a bass management system that's pretty old considering, but tried and true.
DCX2496/NU12,000 from 300hz <. I also use preset rumble filters that are exclusive to my room, my TT and a few external phono preamps.

I also like the protection between a couple of DACs that I have used. As mentioned they can go full throttle in some cases.
It has never happened to me personally, but I've read and heard from more than one reliable source that it can happen.

I'm one of those people that really likes "EYE CANDY" too. I have a soft spot for Cary's SLP-05 and dual V12Rs in Jaguar Red along with the bass
management system I use. (Mainly around the Christmas season). There isn't any tone control but I have enough sub/bass control not to have
rumble issues when playing LPs.

I liked simple at work (before I retired) but at home, it's a tinker fest, to say the least.

BTW all of the systems I use are quiet as a mouse, BUT I take great care with cable routing and pay close attention to valve noise. Nothing worse than
a noisy system.

Regards

 

[Chrispy]

Do you have more than one input?

 

[Esprit]

Do you have more than one input?

Are you asking me?

 

[Petrushka]

I have two rooms served from one source. I hope one day to have a Sonos Port for the second room, but not in the budget this year.

What I found was this:

Amazon.com

One input, four independently controlled outputs. Each output has its own op amp and volume control.

 

[Chrispy]

Are you asking me?

Yes...what is the purpose of the pre-amp if you can't connect directly to a power amp (if that's an option)?