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Do I need a preamp in between my DAC and AMPLIFIER?

stevef22

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Im doing it right now.... RCA out from Geshelli J2 DAC to RCA in on McIntosh 7300 power amplifer.

Sounds pretty good. Just wondering if Im missing something. Or if something will soon blow up.




If I do need a preamp...
The Geshelli has XLR out and the McIntosh has XLR in.... Do you guys reccomend any simple preamps that would acomidate this?



Thank you!
 

radix

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It should be fine.

What's your source? Some apps might max out the volume of the DAC if they have programmatic controls. Or sometimes you might do it accidentally in an app if you have big fingers. Usually you can set it up not to do that.

How's the 7300? I've been thinking of getting a 7150N or 7300.
 

RayDunzl

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Do I need a preamp in between my DAC and AMPLIFIER?

If you have reliable volume control...

And no need to switch among other devices that you can't accomodate now...

No.

Unless you just want one.

I have one, use it for volume, and to switch between the main amp/speakers and the cheap daily drivers for TV etc.
 

Sharpi31

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You don’t need a preamp - you‘re not missing anything.

If you needed to accommodate a number of sources, add features like remote volume & source selection, or drive long line level interconnects, a preamp would be beneficial.

From a safety point of view, many people like to have analogue volume control between a DAC and power amp. It’s not uncommon for a source + DAC to reset to 100% volume, which would mean that your power amp received an un-attenuated line level signal causing it to send a very high level output to your speakers. Best case scenario you get a fright - worst case your speakers are damaged.
 

levimax

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I agree with the other posters that you don't need a pre-amp but I use one for several reasons. I like analog volume controls both for "safety" and for feel. I also like analog tone controls and finally I use DSP room / speaker correction which eats up about 8 dB of digital headroom. While I seldom play real loud when I want to I need extra analog gain to make up for the lost digital gain. Some would argue that is just trading analog clipping for digital clipping which is actually a good trade to make (nothing sounds worse than digital clipping) .
 

kemmler3D

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Like the others have said, as long as your DAC outputs a high enough voltage to max out your amp then you're leaving nothing on the table by eschewing a pre. I personally have a topping DX3 lite hooked straight to my amps. However, other good reasons to want a pre are outlined above.
 
OP
S

stevef22

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Thank you, Everything sounds good.
:cool:
Music source is a WIIM Mini

So it goes...

WiiM Mini
TOSLINK OPTICAL
Geshelli Labs J2 DAC. (What is output voltage on RCA? It has three "volume" levels when you hold down input button. Low/Med/High.)
RCA

McIntosh MC7300 Amplifier
Speaker Cables
KLH Model 5






Image links

IMG-4466 hosted at ImgBB
IMG-4463 hosted at ImgBB
IMG-4464 hosted at ImgBB
IMG-4462 hosted at ImgBB
IMG-4460 hosted at ImgBB




Thank you




IMG_4466.jpg
 
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stevef22

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It should be fine.

What's your source? Some apps might max out the volume of the DAC if they have programmatic controls. Or sometimes you might do it accidentally in an app if you have big fingers. Usually you can set it up not to do that.

How's the 7300? I've been thinking of getting a 7150N or 7300.
7300 is beautiful and sounds as it looks. Really powerfull, really reccomend.

My nicest amp yet. Source is WiiM Mini. Thank you!
 
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stevef22

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If you have reliable volume control...

And no need to switch among other devices that you can't accomodate now...

No.

Unless you just want one.

I have one, use it for volume, and to switch between the main amp/speakers and the cheap daily drivers for TV etc.

Thank you for your input. Pun intended. I use the WiiM mini and it has volume so Im good to go! Thank you
 
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stevef22

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You don’t need a preamp - you‘re not missing anything.

If you needed to accommodate a number of sources, add features like remote volume & source selection, or drive long line level interconnects, a preamp would be beneficial.

From a safety point of view, many people like to have analogue volume control between a DAC and power amp. It’s not uncommon for a source + DAC to reset to 100% volume, which would mean that your power amp received an un-attenuated line level signal causing it to send a very high level output to your speakers. Best case scenario you get a fright - worst case your speakers are damaged.

Thank you! I was not aware some DACS reset to 100% volume. The J2 DAC resets its inputs when has power loss. ( ie I turn off power strip ) so I have to reset input everytime I turn back on power strip. Thats a bug I belive... they should remember what input it was on.
 

radix

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The 7300 has an input sensitivity switch for 1.2 or 2.5V.

As far as I can tell, the J2 does not specify what the low/med/hi outputs are. You might need to get a 0dB WAV file reference and play it and measure the output at the DAC at full volume with the amp off.

Personally, I'd set it such that I have good "play" in the volume control considering the amount of amplification. For example, set the 7300 to 1.2V and set the DAC to LOW. Where is the volume knob for your normal listening? Maybe 1/2? Where is it for your max listening? Can you get there? If that's too low, move it to MED and try again.

You want the system setup so the volume is mostly towards control the high side. If you always have to listen at 20% volume, then you're compressing the digital signal quite a bit (I assume that the DAC does something like 32 bit math, so it's likely not too bad). Whereas if your normal volume is at 60% and then 90% is your max, that's likely a better range to keep the volume control.
 
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stevef22

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The 7300 has an input sensitivity switch for 1.2 or 2.5V.

As far as I can tell, the J2 does not specify what the low/med/hi outputs are. You might need to get a 0dB WAV file reference and play it and measure the output at the DAC at full volume with the amp off.

Personally, I'd set it such that I have good "play" in the volume control considering the amount of amplification. For example, set the 7300 to 1.2V and set the DAC to LOW. Where is the volume knob for your normal listening? Maybe 1/2? Where is it for your max listening? Can you get there? If that's too low, move it to MED and try again.

You want the system setup so the volume is mostly towards control the high side. If you always have to listen at 20% volume, then you're compressing the digital signal quite a bit (I assume that the DAC does something like 32 bit math, so it's likely not too bad). Whereas if your normal volume is at 60% and then 90% is your max, that's likely a better range to keep the volume control.
Thank you. I found that the DAC at medium volume matches the amp at medium settings really well. I can play my music at low and then high volumes are reachable.


However, where should the GAIN knobs be on the 7300?


Thank you
 

radix

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JSmith

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Thank you! I was not aware some DACS reset to 100% volume.
Just always make sure you turn on the DAC first, double checking the volume level/pre-mode, before turning on the power amp. The main reports of this happening is with one Topping model... but better to be safe than sorry.


JSmith
 

radix

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Just always make sure you turn on the DAC first, double checking the volume level/pre-mode, before turning on the power amp. The main reports of this happening is with one Topping model... but better to be safe than sorry.
My issue is usually with Spotify or Roon apps. If I do the wrong thing, I can accidentally bump it up to 100%. Sometimes there's a bit of lag between pressing volume up and it happening, and I over-press and it shoots way up.
 
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