do i need a headphone amp for my custom iems?

[porotikos]

Hi there guys. New babies are coming and i know my wife will murder me if i continue to hear my fab music loud!!
So, even if i didnt want to, i decided to invest in good iems.
99% i will go for these:

Blade - Soundz

Neutral Tonality or Fun Tuning | Your Choice DESIGN YOURS NOW Welcome to the world of Blade v2 Welcome to the world of Blade v2 Blade v2 is the versatility king. Opt for reference accuracy or enjoy warm musicality seamlessly on-the-go. Ideal for both neutral monitoring and unapologetically fun...

www.soundzcustom.com

Soundz Blade v2.
They have a switch to boost low frequencies so this could be also great for live situations when i play the drums. 2 birds in 1 stone.

in a review i read this:
"It is sensitive to source noise and high output impedance, as the impedance is extremely low at 12 ohms, with a SPL of 105dB/mW, so they are not the easiest to drive either. "

What does this mean?
I have 2 setups to listen to my music.
First i will plug the iems directly to the headphone jack of my Sansui au 717 amplifier, when i want to listen to vinyl records.
Secondly i will plug them in a headphone amp i already have. the Art Headamp 4 pro. This is when i need to listen to flacs, tidal etc. (i have a soncoz la-qxd1 dac by the way).

Are the headamp or the headphone circuit of my sansui good enough to give out the sound as it is supposed to be?
Or if only 1 of the 2 is good enough (which one), perhaps i could buy a topping l30 or something similar?

I would expect the iems have no need for amplification as the drivers are really small.
But i trust the forum and would rather get a solid answer from you guys. thank you

 

[staticV3]

What does this mean?

It means you ideally want a headphone Amp with low output impedance and low noise.

High output power/voltage on the other hand is not required, as the IEM is highly sensitive.

That would make the Apple headphone adapter a prime candidate for example.

The Sansui on the other hand is not well suited and may give you excessive hiss and skewed tonality.

To fix this, you could connect a Topping L30II to the Sansui's Pre out and use that instead (ideally set to Low gain).

I would not be surprised if the ART had similar issues as the Sansui when used with such an IEM.

 

[porotikos]

Thank you for this fast reply my friend.
The hadamp has these specifications.
could you perhaps tell if it is suited for my purpose?

for the sansui headphone jack amplification, i cant find any specs to share...
Thank you

 

[staticV3]

The hadamp has these specifications.
could you perhaps tell if it is suited for my purpose?

As a rule of thumb, the load impedance of your headphones should be 8x the output impedance of your headphone Amp or more.

This is called the damping factor.

The Headamp 4 Pro + Blade V2 would give you a damping factor of 0.25, so definitely too low.

This can result in drastic changes to the IEM's frequency response or tonality, which would deviate from the designer's intent.

The spec sheet doesn't say anything about output noise, but I suspect it would be suboptimal in that regard as well.

Generally, I'd recommend anyone to buy an Apple headphone adapter, just to have a clean, neutral, but inexpensive reference point to compare other gear to.

 

[porotikos]

thank you so much. so i need a headphone amp. period.
Is the topping l30ii the cheapest option for me? or should i consider also something else?
As for the apple headphoen adapter you mentioned, i have some questions.
isnt this to be used with an apple phone only? (i dont have an apple phone).
and how could this improve my situation?
or you mean that (if i had an iphone) i can listen with this adapter to how a song should sound, and then check my other gear and see if this is similar or i need an amp, right?
thank you for everything my friend

 

[Multicore]

As for the apple headphoen adapter you mentioned, i have some questions.
isnt this to be used with an apple phone only?

No. Apple sells one with the Lightning connector and another with the USB-C connector that works with non Apple devices.

 

[porotikos]

https://www.skroutz.gr/s/54010439/Apple-Metatropeas-USB-C-male-se-3-5mm-female-Leyko-1tmch-MU7E2.html

This is the one to get, right? thank you so much guys!!!!

 

[porotikos]

By the way i found that for my sansui, The service manual schematic states 100mw per channel at 8 ohms impedance (for a 1khz signal). The headphone outputs are driven from the speaker outputs via 220 ohm resistors (one for each channel).

So i have a damping factor of 1.5. So i guess that sansui is not good for my iems as well, right?
Apart from topping l30, that i intend to buy (unless someone suggests a cheaper but equally good headamp for my setup ), i am thinking of selling my sonkoz and getting also a combo dac+headphone amp, that also has low output, for my phones. Any suggestions?

 

[staticV3]

The headphone outputs are driven from the speaker outputs via 220 ohm resistors (one for each channel).

So i have a damping factor of 1.5

Damping factor is headphone impedance (12Ω) divided by output impedance (220Ω).

Your damping factor is 0.05.

 

[staticV3]

Is the topping l30ii the cheapest option for me? or should i consider also something else?

There are cheaper options, but none with the L30II's Low gain, which could be very handy in your situation.

Keep in mind that only the L30 II has that Low gain.

and how could this improve my situation?

If you play music from a PC, then you can do so via the Apple dongle.

 

[AnalogSteph]

I don't have the SM handy right now, but suspect that the AU-717's tape loop is an entirely passive affair. This would mean that you could use it as a source selector for a headphone amp attached to a tape out (maybe Tape 2) without even having to turn it on. Computer output could then go to one of its free high-level inputs.

Optionally, the other tape output could be used to rip some vinyl using your onboard line input. Check the levels of group loop noise, but I think there shouldn't be a whole lot.

 

[porotikos]

Thank you all for your posts. i have read everything and thought it over. i have 2 paths.
First of all lets take into account that i will get the L30 ii to add to my sansui.
Apart from that,

I would also like to change things for my pc setup. Right now i have the art headamp which is inadequate. and the soncoz laqxd1 dac.

First path is to sell the art headamp and get another headphone amp that has more than 2 inputs (need that for band practise at home) and to also have low output impedance so that it is fine for my iems.
The only headamp that i found (after a lot of search) that (possibly) does that, is the LD SYSTEMS LDHPA4. The specs dont show the output impedance from what i searched, but they state that:

• Minimum Load per Channel: 10 ohm

Does that mean that they play well with my 12 ohm iems or did i interprate that wrong?Full specs i found, are these

• Model Name: LDHPA4
• Max. Output Power: 4 x 100 mW
• Input Impedance: 1 kohm
• Minimum Load per Channel: 10 ohms
• Input Connectors: 2 x RCA, 6,3 mm Phone Jack Stereo
• Output Connectors: 4 x 6,3 mm Phone Jack Stereo
• Controls: 4 x Headphone Volume Control, Mono / Stereo Switch
• Indicators: Power LED

second path is to keep the headamp to have for my band practise (the others have high impedance headphones so we should be fine.

But instead i would sell my soncoz dac and get a dac-headphone amp combo that has low output impedance for my iems.

After some search i have come down to these combo kits. i dont know if i read and understood their specs correctly. i think they might do, and so i would like to ask your opinions.

SMSL RAW-MDA 1 DAC & Headphone Amp​

(amirm states it has close to zero output impedance. so the damping factor is close to infinite. is that a good thing?)

AOSHIDA SMSL C200​

amirm states "only drops at 12 ohm". i dont get what he means, does he mean that they wont be great for my iems?

SMSL DL100 DAC​

amirm says that up to 16ohm it is great, but what about my 12?

SMSL DL200​

cant find amirms measurements for this. if it is ok for my iems, it is a strong candidate



bottomline question is this.

is there any combo dac - headphone amp, that plays will with my 12 ohm iems and also is a better dac that my soncoz laqxd1?

and also, is the LD SYSTEMS LDHPA4 good enough for my iems?
Come to think of it, if the LDHPA4 is good, i could get 2 (instead of 1 plus the topping L300ii). one to replace my art headamp and another to hook in my sansui's pre out. so i wouldnt break the bank and also keep my soncoz dac which is good enough i guess...

Thank you all



ps. you have mentioned that a damping factor of 8 or more is required. can the number get really high? for example 100? or the range is something like 8-20? thanks

 

[porotikos]

A small update to the topic. just purchased both the topping l30ii and also the LD SYSTEMS LDHPA4 to replace my art headamp

Last thing i was thinking about, is if i want to replace also my sonkoz la-qxd1 with a combo amp and dac.

I descirbed what is into consideration in teh previous post. All are smsl. but i read that smsl produces clicks when changing tracks etc, and obviously this is a big no.
My pc is almost always on. Perhaps this way i would avoid the clicks? if having the pc always on has nothing to do with it, and this is an smsl "feature" perhaps they are to be avoided for my situation, but i cant find another amp-dac combo that has better dac than my soncoz, in the range of top 200 euros...
Perhaps i should wait until i get combo dac? cheers to all