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Do I Need 2 Subs?

Connor1a

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Modestly quick question…

I have a pair of Warfedale Heritage Lintons 85s being driven by a pair of NCx500 monoblocks fed by a WiiM Ultra. The chain:

WiiM Ultra -> NCx500 monoblocks -> Warfedale Linton 85s

I have some issues in my room with low frequency performance that the WiiM RC isn’t able to correct via parametric EQ changes so I purchased an SVS SB-1000 Pro. The sub seemed to review well / match my Lintons (or so I’ve been thinking…). It arrives later this week.

My main use is music. Every sort from punk through rhythm and blues.

Two questions.

First, any strong objections with the SVS SB-1000 Pro sub paired with Warfedale Lintons? Like so many speaker decisions, it’s impossible to go listen to options in a brick and mortar store. It’s a game of buy on Amazon, try at home and then repackage and return to UPS if you don't care for the speaker. It’s a pita, but it’s what I have… Are there other must try options? Yes, I’ve looked through the recommendations worksheet already. Hence the SVS.

Second, my listening room is fairly small. Think circa ‘30s / ‘40s construction with 7’ ceilings. It doesn’t need a huge bass source to fill the room. My thinking is that one 12” sub should be all that’s required. However, sonically, is it better to have two subs? I honestly don't know where I’d set two of them. I’d initially intended the Lintons to be standalone, so the subs are more floor space than I’d planned. One is going to be tight. A second would somehow fit, but it’d be unnatural (lol)…

Thanks in advance for your thoughts…
 
SVS SB-1000 Pro has its own DSP so play around with that first. Betting you will be happy and can always upgrade later.
 
Two subs is not necessary for one person unless trying to solve some placement issues. If you only care about one listening position then place your listeing position and sub in a good area, EQ out any peaks and you are done. If you want the same bass in multiple listening positions then 2 or more subs plays a big rolle in bass consistency seat to seat.

Whether using one sub or multiple, placement is key. People often wantto place the sub(s) and seating where it is convenient but that is not always the best location for sound. if you only care about one seating location get one sub and expiriment with different locations.
 
How are the Lintons and your listening position located in the room? You should have been able to address serious bass issues with your Lintons, so I'm not sure adding a sub is going to help you there. I wouldn't normally recommend an SVS but that particular model is very small so I understand why you went with it.
 
Multiple subs give better results throughout the room generally vs a single sub. Electronics suitable for best integration help, too.

I agree. While two subs are not essential, having two or more subs makes it much easier (or even possible) to fix some room response issues. The problem with multiple subs is the increasing difficulty to integrate them. Computer assistance is pretty much required there, I reckon.
 
I agree. While two subs are not essential, having two or more subs makes it much easier (or even possible) to fix some room response issues. The problem with multiple subs is the increasing difficulty to integrate them. Computer assistance is pretty much required there, I reckon.
There's a variety of ways to approach integration, but most 2ch gear just doesn't have much going for it in that regard.
 
I agree. While two subs are not essential, having two or more subs makes it much easier (or even possible) to fix some room response issues. The problem with multiple subs is the increasing difficulty to integrate them. Computer assistance is pretty much required there, I reckon.
I agree this is true but it’s always going to be a tough nut to crack! Regardless, the placement is more important than the qty.

I think there is merit in multiple subs to “smear” the standing waves to get a flatter frequency response in the lowest octave.

Mains can also produce low frequencies and may be forced into an obvious and specific location that is relative to the listening position but terrible for exciting room modes. Therefore, I prefer a Sat/Sub arrangement, where mains stay above the Schroeder frequency of the room, plus well placed subs.

I have four 12” subs (25Hz), plus mains that extend into the mid 30Hz range in a 3,000+ ft^3 (edit: cubic, not squared ‍:facepalm:) space, and found that having all of them limited to placement on the floor is disappointing. I haven’t tried raising them up because it’s just not aesthetically acceptable.

For me, one sub added to the mains was a huge improvement but came with issues due to room resonances. The second sub may or may not have helped. My basement room is very irregular shape made up of three areas in a large open space, with a low ceiling. I added two more and it’s better but I gave up trying to optimize, looking for places that would be aesthetic non-starters. It’s as good as can be reasonably implemented but knowing it could be better eats at me! lol
 
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Maybe more, but I think four in most home sized rooms is a good way to go.
Having done 4 multiple times, I've never seen a reason more is truly needed from a response standpoint if one knows how to set them up properly.

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A was afraid of adding a sub to my Lintons but physics help me understand.

2 sound emisors generate interferences. Stereo imaging suffer from those nulls at some points. High frequencies have those nulls but is less perceptible than low frecuencies.

If you are close to the speakers and far from any wall direct sound will give you a nice experience, but once you are far from the speakers and close to any wall… bounces of the waves and room gain will destroy the experience.

Adding a third (1 sub) or fourth (2 sub) emisor will help you uniform the whole sound experience. The problem is finding the correct location of those subs and aligning them in phase to the speakers. You can do it by trusting your ears or using a microphone and REW. The second one is easiest one.

In my case, I just have 1 sub close to my sitting position (behind my sofa). This location help me feel the bass before hitting other walls. But additionally to phase alignement I had to create some frecuency filters for my sub in order to uniform frecuency response. (-12db at 21Hz, -4dB at 34hz….).
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Why not use a high pass filter for the 85s?
 
I wouldn't normally recommend an SVS but that particular model is very small so I understand why you went with it.
Just to make sure I understand, you would recommend the SVS due to its size? Ie, its small stature would work well in my small space? It’s funny, some other recommendations were to go larger, but I’m actually worried that this is too large as it is. Candidly, I thought I was going slightly over what was needed to allow myself some flexibility in the future were I to move to a larger space…
 
How are the Lintons and your listening position located in the room? You should have been able to address serious bass issues with your Lintons
Sorry for the staggered reply, this is what my WiiM generates for room correction (and what I’m trying to solve).

IMG_0007.jpeg
 
Any in room measurements to share?
Attached is my WiiM’s RC’d view of the sound + a snapshot of the room space I’m dealing with.

IMG_0007.jpegIMG_0177.jpeg

As you can see from the RC graphic, WiiM is telling me that my lower end is quite ragged. I’ve tried all manner of parametric filters to correct those deep dips, but haven’t been able to materially change one even at max settings.

As you can see from the offending space snapshot, my placement options within the room are fairly limited. While I might be able to squeeze another 6” out from the front wall (might), that’s literally about it. Directly behind the photo taking position is the front door. I can’t change that. I also can’t change the long window w/ blinds to the right or the open wall into the kitchen and the open hallway to the left. Classic US ‘30s / ‘40s sitting room.

That’s my problem set…
 
It’s as good as can be reasonably implemented but knowing it could be better eats at me! lol
This… This I can understand.
 
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