Do headphones have different ways of presenting soundstage beyond FR?

[Jiraya369]

Would like to know this. Would Closed Back A sound better than Closed Back B due to the way the headphones are shaped/designed despite being tuned to the same FR? That is, the soundstage would be perceived as different or something. Or would the difference actually not be there due to being closed backs?

And what about open backs? Would those have a more pronounced effect?

For example let's take a look at the DCA Noire X and the Sennheiser HDB630, would i perceive a difference in soundstage if they're EQ'd to my tastes/to a similar target? Would it be due to the inevitable variations in FR create the soundstage difference or would it be the design?

 

[staticV3]

Would like to know this. Would Closed Back A sound better than Closed Back B due to the way the headphones are shaped/designed despite being tuned to the same FR? That is, the soundstage would be perceived as different or something.

The way various closed back headphones interact with the pinna is different between models.

The review site rtings tests this by measuring the response difference between using their HATS with pinna and without.

I've found this to be a surprisingly accurate metric for sound stage.

Here's the methodology: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/prtf

And here are the resulting graphs and scores for closed back headphones: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/table/187196

 

[Jiraya369]

The way various closed back headphones interact with the pinna is different between models.

The review site rtings tests this by measuring the response difference between using their HATS with pinna and without.

I've found this to be a surprisingly accurate metric for sound stage.

Here's the methodology: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tests/sound-quality/prtf

And here are the resulting graphs and scores for closed back headphones: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/tools/table/187196

it's precisely because i find their test absolutely useless from personal testing that i asked this question, it just doesnt seem to mean much in the grand scheme of things. It feels more random than anything else to me. Most of rtings's tests and scores dont mean anything to me, only FR does and even then they have weird target curves so the raw fr is all i care for. At least for headphones.

 

[wiggum]

it's precisely because i find their test absolutely useless from personal testing that i asked this question, it just doesnt seem to mean much in the grand scheme of things. It feels more random than anything else to me. Most of rtings's tests and scores dont mean anything to me, only FR does and even then they have weird target curves so the raw fr is all i care for. At least for headphones.

The only part of FR that has some relevance to soundstage ( also seen in HRIR) is the dip around 10 kHz. I have tried adding this dip and listened to several headphones.

I couldn't perceive a soundstage though over-ear headphones felt better in whatever feeble soundstage that could be felt while IEMs don't have an iota of soundstage which tells me the pinna interaction is one factor. The other factors might be ITD and ILD as applying a HRIR produces a soundstage that headphones can't do natively.

I have attached an example.

 

[Jiraya369]

The only part of FR that has some relevance to soundstage ( also seen in HRIR) is the dip around 10 kHz. I have tried adding this dip and listened to several headphones.

I couldn't perceive a soundstage though over-ear headphones felt better in whatever feeble soundstage that could be felt while IEMs don't have an iota of soundstage which tells me the pinna interaction is one factor. The other factors might be ITD and ILD as applying a HRIR produces a soundstage that headphones can't do natively.

I have attached an example.

oh yeah, i personally think mids play an even more important role, idk what you did to the file but it sounds phase-ey and stuff, seems more like artificially induced soundstage than genuine if that makes sense, i only played back on speakers rn. Like, these phase plays are also done in the mixing stage with random stuff to make things seem more "fun" or "wacky". That is, the sound good in stereo but any phase issue induced outside of the sweet spot is going to sound terrible or at least that's what i found out. I saw that playing things in mono can help you find out phase issues and i did that for test2 and it sounded terrible.

here are some tests i cooked to show an example of FR being vital for soundstage. The main one is with the clap being loud, the 2nd one is it with it being quiet to show that just levels are enough to create a sense of distance and the final file is to show what the soundstage dip in headphones can do. You can see that in all the best staging headphones (or at least the ones considered the best) there's a massive dip in the 1-4khz region. I simulated that with just this file and you can come to conclusions for yourself.

What I was wondering is if something beyond FR genuinely plays a role and what could help us standardize it or something? RTINGS's one is weird and doesnt line up with my experience. FT1 Pro is listed so low on their list yet it has a good soundstage, the difference between the arya stealth and the hd800s is so massive yet in reality it really isnt that big of a change, it's just really REALLY random.

 

[wiggum]

oh yeah, i personally think mids play an even more important role, idk what you did to the file but it sounds phase-ey and stuff, seems more like artificially induced soundstage than genuine if that makes sense, i only played back on speakers rn. Like, these phase plays are also done in the mixing stage with random stuff to make things seem more "fun" or "wacky". That is, the sound good in stereo but any phase issue induced outside of the sweet spot is going to sound terrible or at least that's what i found out. I saw that playing things in mono can help you find out phase issues and i did that for test2 and it sounded terrible.

here are some tests i cooked to show an example of FR being vital for soundstage. The main one is with the clap being loud, the 2nd one is it with it being quiet to show that just levels are enough to create a sense of distance and the final file is to show what the soundstage dip in headphones can do. You can see that in all the best staging headphones (or at least the ones considered the best) there's a massive dip in the 1-4khz region. I simulated that with just this file and you can come to conclusions for yourself.

What I was wondering is if something beyond FR genuinely plays a role and what could help us standardize it or something? RTINGS's one is weird and doesnt line up with my experience. FT1 Pro is listed so low on their list yet it has a good soundstage, the difference between the arya stealth and the hd800s is so massive yet in reality it really isnt that big of a change, it's just really REALLY random.

Well, the sample is supposed to be played on headphones. Not speakers.