Do Fancy Audio Cables Make a Difference? (video)

[respice finem]

A propos doctor - when people come to him and tell him of hearing things no one else hears, he knows they really hear them - which doesn't mean they're real. We underestimate what our brains can do, and that includes lying to us. Fun fact: without that "lying", we would see the world upside down all the time... So, everybody is subject to bias all the time, and that's why the "rationalist fraction" will prefer parameters over belief any day, and vice versa. Two worlds, apart - including, but not limited to, audio. I really don't see any sense in "missionary work" other than stating the proven, and not letting maths and physics be framed as "views", unless it becomes really manic for an individual, and sometimes it does get this far. People can spend fortunes on piffle and really ruin their lives, sometimes.

 

[amirm]

How is it that you know why audiophiles switch equipment?

Before starting this forum, I started another one that was 80% subjectivists and focused on high-end audio. Per above, I have tons of friends that fall in that category. I watch and observe what they do. I see them jump from one tweak to another. First it is the power cord. Then it is the outlet. Then it is the screws in the outlet. Then it is the wiring behind the wall. Then it is the balanced power that feeds that. After that, comes coasters to put under things. Then mess with the server. Ethernet wiring. Ethernet switch. Power supply for the switch. Coaster under said switch.

So I do know them.

 

[Judas]

Ok anecdotal evidence.

 

[RichB]

Just a few observations
You can't generalize from the specific. (taking one example and making a (general rule)
Define generic. Scientifically.
Define fancy. Scientifically
Tell us how , assuming you are correct you support the implied conclusion that fancy cables don't
make a difference.
Please tell how you deal with your general bias against against specialty cables. And furthermore did you perform your listening test after you reviewed your measurement. did you really want to hear a difference?
How is that you now what audiophiiles hear? Since you would have to in order to conclude "it" was there all the time?
How is it that you know why audiophiles switch equipment?
Let me make an alternative suggestion. Perhaps they switch because their current setup is woefully lacking when compared to the real thing.
A humble audiophile.

I would never call myself an audiophile, I prefer OCD listener

Actually, I like looking for components that measure extremely well so I can put that into the done pile.
With the AHB2s, amps are done. There is no noise the cables lock so nothing to fix there.
I trust that Benchmark, who sweated every detail, missed the power cord.

- Rich

 

[ta240]

.... I see them jump from one tweak to another. First it is the power cord. Then it is the outlet. Then it is the screws in the outlet. Then it is the wiring behind the wall. Then it is the balanced power that feeds that. After that, comes coasters to put under things. Then mess with the server. Ethernet wiring. Ethernet switch. Power supply for the switch. Coaster under said switch....

The fuel of perception bias and the danger of the "why not try the tweak, it is only $10?". Once your brain convinces you there was an improvement with that, it is a slippery and expensive slope to slide down.

And since none of the tweaks actually made a real improvement, you are always left with the system that was in some way lacking and lead you to look for ways to improve it. It is a loop.

 

[ta240]

.I like Ethan Winer 's content....

If only he were a golden tongued salesman maybe more would listen. I just didn't get the feeling by the end of the video that he was my new best friend

 

[respice finem]

And the one and only instance impossible to fail is the own "all hearing ears", that's the point when that loop starts to get, well, unsafe, at least to the wallet. The day I understood it was with a Sony minidisc (lossy compression, last millennium), I've clearly heard a difference in favor of the CD, until I realized I got the switch positions wrong... A healing reality bite, you may say.

 

[ta240]

I would never call myself an audiophile, I prefer OCD listener

Actually, I like looking for components that measure extremely well so I can put that into the done pile.
With the AHB2s, amps are done. There is no noise the cables lock so nothing to fix there.
I trust that Benchmark, who sweated every detail, forgot about the power cord.

- Rich

I actually noticed the list in your signature before reading your post and my first thought was "that's a lot of money" but you make a good point that if you just spend that money once it can be less overall in the long run.

 

[RichB]

I actually noticed the list in your signature before reading your post and my first thought was "that's a lot of money" but you make a good point that if you just spend that money once it can be less overall in the long run.

Prior to this I had two ATI AT6002s (86 lbs. each idle at 75 watts) and an AT6002 (120 lbs. and idle at 125 watts).
That is almost 300 lbs. and 275 watts idling. That is a lot of heat.
They also had audible transformer hum from my listening position.

The AHB2s get expensive for HT, but there is that OCD thing.
At least they are small, cool running, no hum, are easily moved, and are redundant in case of a failure.
Though, I have never seen a post about an AHB2 failing.
Total weight 60 lbs. and 60 watts idling. I was able to remove the fans from my credenza.

- Rich

 

[Lambda]

If only he were a golden tongued salesman maybe more would listen.

They don't like what he says not how he says it.
If someone just spend hundreds of dollars and for something only that's only working as long as they believe they wont to believe.

"On can measure every aspect of audio reproduction... but you have to measure everything "
I fully agree with him.

But i think there are a view things out of scope with his measurements
(i'm sure he knows this and would not argue about)
1.Noise rejection performance for example.
But then again it only maters if there is noise.
2.microphone properties maybe. (unlikly to have "real world" effects but differently measurable)

And there are some more effects with differently negligible effects for audio in the real world.
fro example Thermo electric effects and burden voltage.

So we can actually measure all this things and more but we don't because its kinde of obvious they don't matter for Audio signals

 

[ta240]

They don't like what he says not how he says it.
If someone just spend hundreds of dollars and for something only that's only working as long as they believe they wont to believe.
....

I still think those that haven't purchased yet tend to fall under the smooth talking spell. It tends to easier, for most, to watch a guy tell folksy sounding tales and throw in a bit about magic equipment ointment than it is to follow a science based guy proving something.
Mcgowan and Darko are just a better salesmen than Ethan; even if Ethan is selling science.

 

[Steve Dallas]

If only he were a golden tongued salesman maybe more would listen. I just didn't get the feeling by the end of the video that he was my new best friend

The fact that no one would loan him a high end cable to measure, including a retailer he knows, tells us they all know there are selling lies, yet they do it anyway. I would not be able to sleep at night.

Anecdote: I accompanied an EE friend to audition at some Wilson Sabrinas at a high end audio store in North Dallas. The salesman, we will call him Mr. Beard, insisted he needed to purchase $10K in various cables to get the best out of them, along with an expensive Boulder amplifier and Linn streamer. The pitch was that they will not sound this good without the same components. (No mention of the room was made.) Enamored with the idea, as if a switch had been flipped, my friend forgot he is an EE and started down the path with Mr. Beard. You can imagine the eyeball daggers thrown my way, when I said something like, "[Friend's name], let's think rationally about cables. They have resistance, capacitance, and inductance. These features can cause them to act as tone controls and nothing more. Money is much better spent on DSP for tone control. There is no magic in cables." Fortunately, he snapped out of it pretty quickly, and Mr. Beard tried to reel him back in with talk about O2 free copper and silver solder and mystical insulation and all the rest. My friend realized he was peddling BS, and Mr. Beard lost the sale that day. Today, my friend owns Benchmark Amps, a Matrix streamer / DAC, modest name-brand cables, and is trying to decide which Revel Be speakers make the most sense for his room. I feel like I saved a man from embarking on a terrible journey.

 

[Judas]

I would never call myself an audiophile, I prefer OCD listener

Actually, I like looking for components that measure extremely well so I can put that into the done pile.
With the AHB2s, amps are done. There is no noise the cables lock so nothing to fix there.
I trust that Benchmark, who sweated every detail, forgot about the power cord.

- Rich

I think you might have meant dung pile. I like Benchmark and Salk.

 

[Judas]

I am so happy to see so much anecdotal evidence.

 

[amirm]

I am so happy to see so much anecdotal evidence.

You are confusing us with the other camp. I showed real, objective evaluation of the product in hand. It is the other camp that says, "oh, I hear a difference. Trust me!"

 

[Hutch]

Greatly enjoying these videos. The Ethernet switch review is spot on. TCP packets have checksums and you're especially not losing packets on a small home wired network.

 

[Russ_L]

The answer my friend is (obliviously NOT) blowing in the Wind.......

Russ

 

[Judas]

You are confusing us with the other camp. I showed real, objective evaluation of the product in hand. It is the other camp that says, "oh, I hear a difference. Trust me!"

El Jefe It is not always about you. At least this time I was not blocked from the thread.

 

[BillH]

we can only dream of such good times. until then we'll continue to have every thread end with subjectivist trolling

 

[amirm]

El Jefe It is not always about you. At least this time I was not blocked from the thread.

The block will come shortly if you keep this up.