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Do Fancy Audio Cables Make a Difference? (video)

 
or,
:cool:
 
I had noise at my speakers at one point and balanced cables reduced it. I know many say it is not necessary in a home environment but with a credenza (horizontal components, it is difficult to isolate cables.

Good balanced cables are not expensive and balanced input and outputs eliminate transmission issues so I look for balanced transmission.

There are products where the balanced outputs measure slightly worse, this has been true for Parasound amplifiers, for example.
Amplifiers in general are largely sold based on raw power. The latest Parasound JC-1+ power specifications are
Power measurements are with 120 VAC:
0.15% THD, RMS continuous power,
full audio band (20 Hz - 20 kHz)
Click to expand...
This is SINAD of -56.47 dB, clearly a headless panther but this is likely at maximum power. Measurements at 1 watt are more important (to me).
Products that receive decapacitated panthers can meet manufacturers specifications.

The greater problem occurs in products that claim to high-end and have little to no specifications. They are above such trivialities.

- Rich
 
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Pot?
/scnr ;)
 
respice finem said:
or,
:cool:
Click to expand...

Both cables pass the signal from an Low impedance to a high impedance source exactly the same.
No surprise. But the null test is grade tool indent!

I like Ethan Winer 's content is he member of the forum?

Whats not been tested is how well they reject "Noise" and if there is a different with high impedance sources.

Especially the first test is hard(expensive) if you want to do it properly and reproducible.
 
I wonder how powerful (and near) the source of noise would have to be, to make it become audible in a standard loudspeaker cable, or XLR or even RCA... While powerful sources of noise exist in a home environment (like the dreaded powerline adapters), their frequencies are above and beyond audio range. I guess we are after things here that, while they exist, don't even remotely matter.
 
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https://schoeps.de/fileadmin/user_u...traege_Aufsaetze/Papers/SCHOEPS_RFIShield.pdf
Pleases give it a read. the concept translates to RCA and line and levels sources in the same way

Radio-frequency interference can have many diverse causes, and many kinds of audible disturbances can result (broadband noise, discrete tones, etc.), depending on the frequency, strength and waveform of the interfer-ing signal.Radio-frequency signals aren’t directly audible since their frequency is far too high. They become audible only when demodulated somewhere in the circuitry of a piece of equipment. Thus the circuitry must be protected from these RF signals
Click to expand...

respice finem said:
their frequencies are above and beyond audio range. I guess we are after things here that, while they exist, don't even remotely matter.
Click to expand...
If frequencies are above and beyond audio range don't matter then why is this a thing?
 
Strange, never occured here, neither at home nor at work, where all is full of "airborne" and mains noise (including powerline adapters in part). Does not even bother an EKG with 0,01mV to 4 mV working voltage. "Effects all sounds" where, in a phone? Not in a LF audio cable I believe. USB, unshielded/broken?
If I think about it, there was once a problem in an AFB where I had my drill 4 years ago, the lecture room beamer (HDMI) cut out each time the main radar was turned on, so yeah that could happen, but it's not an "audio cable" really. FWIH this is fixed now with HDMI-optical. I've had a PC mainboard causing USB troubles, yes, preferred to clean it up getting another, after a test with a chip-based "isolator" made it actually worse. It claimed to be 2.0 but probably wasn't. But all that was the mainboard's issue and not a cable problem (now still the same cable, just a better mainboard, problem gone). And, again, USB is not "fancy audio cable" in my book at least.
 
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respice finem said:
Strange, never occured here, neither at home nor at work, where all is full of "airborne" and mains noise (including powerline adapters in part). Does not even bother an EKG with 0,01mV to 4 mV working voltage. "Effects all sounds" where, in a phone? Not in a LF audio cable I believe. USB, unshielded/broken?
Click to expand...

Since the age of mobile phones manufactures take more masseurs to EMI harden there devices.
from a engineering perspective its not so hard to filter out everything over lets say 50khz or what ever band your interested in.
EKG is only a view hundred Hz max. i guss? so its even easier to have proper filters.
The problem come with badly designed products vintage gear and Audiophile esoteric stuff.
"the one Germanium transistor Class A Phono preamp from the 70s" stuff like this.

But if you find some crappy active PC speakers from the 90s and place your GSM phone right next to i while making a call it will cause interference noise.

I have 5-10W 70cm ham radios and 8W 2,4ghz transmitter they can cause serious interference even in modern professional equipment.
(Thy also make my led light bulbs flicker.)

Not normal conditions for audiophiles ...

respice finem said:
It claimed to be 2.0 but probably wasn't.
Click to expand...
i made the same experience
 
Agreed in principle, but, thinking in terms of the thread title, nothing of this will really be solved with "fancy audio cables", will it? BTW the EKG is 40 years old (Japanese), built like a little tank so yes, well shielded but the leads aren't, and yes, I think it only goes 1kHz max (which is overkill anyway for an EKG) and it has a funny little speaker (beep, beep...). As for el cheapo monitors, I have Behringer actives (10? years old) for small presentations / tutorials, never had any phone or other interference with those, despite only RCA from mainboard (which is not to say it can't happen).
 
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Just a few observations
You can't generalize from the specific. (taking one example and making a (general rule)
Define generic. Scientifically.
Define fancy. Scientifically
Tell us how , assuming you are correct you support the implied conclusion that fancy cables don't
make a difference.
Please tell how you deal with your general bias against against specialty cables. And furthermore did you perform your listening test after you reviewed your measurement. did you really want to hear a difference?
How is that you now what audiophiiles hear? Since you would have to in order to conclude "it" was there all the time?
How is it that you know why audiophiles switch equipment?
Let me make an alternative suggestion. Perhaps they switch because their current setup is woefully lacking when compared to the real thing.
A humble audiophile.
 
Judas said:
Just a few observations
You can't generalize from the specific. (taking one example and making a (general rule)
Define generic. Scientifically.
Define fancy. Scientifically
Tell us how , assuming you are correct you support the implied conclusion that fancy cables don't
make a difference.
Please tell how you deal with your general bias against against specialty cables. And furthermore did you perform your listening test after you reviewed your measurement. did you really want to hear a difference?
How is that you now what audiophiiles hear? Since you would have to in order to conclude "it" was there all the time?
How is it that you know why audiophiles switch equipment?
Let me make an alternative suggestion. Perhaps they switch because their current setup is woefully lacking when compared to the real thing.
A humble audiophile.
Click to expand...

Uh huh.

Here’s a list of all of the fancy cable peddlers who have demonstrated audible superiority of their products:




.
 
RichB said:
I had noise at my speakers at one point and balanced cables reduced it. I know many say it is not necessary in a home environment but with a credenza (horizontal components, it is difficult to isolate cables.

Good balanced cables are not expensive and balanced input and outputs eliminate transmission issues so I look for balanced transmission.

There are products where the balanced outputs measure slightly worse, this has been true for Parasound amplifiers, for example.
Amplifiers in general are largely sold based on raw power. The latest Parasound JC-1+ power specifications are

This is SINAD of -56.47 dB, clearly a headless panther but this is likely at maximum power. Measurements at 1 watt are more important (to me).
Products that receive decapacitated panthers can meet manufacturers specifications.

The greater problem occurs in products that claim to high-end and have little to no specifications. They are above such trivialities.

- Rich
Click to expand...


Parasound uses JFET's in key position of their input stages instead of bi-polar transistors. JFET's have 10dB to 20dB less transconductance than bi-polar transistors. Due to the design of the amplifiers (and most all Class AB amplifiers) this design decision directly leads to 10dB to 20dB more distortion. JFET's are also used by PS Audio.

The pots at the inputs of many Parasound power amplifiers often lead to unnecessary channel imbalances.

It is hard to see the advantages of these design decisions vs. alternatives. The decisions seem like unforced errors in tennis.
 
Judas said:
Just a few observations
You can't generalize from the specific. (taking one example and making a (general rule)
Define generic. Scientifically.
Define fancy. Scientifically
Click to expand...
You are generalizing way too much. :) There is no "science" in this video. It is simple measurement of what could impact audible range to a human objective, and subjectively. There is no research here. No grants to support the same. But heck of a lot more evidence than the folks on the other side present.

So no, I don't have to do any of the above. I just need to do more than the other side does to back their claims of fidelity. By that measure, I went a mile whereas they don't move an inch.
 
Judas said:
Please tell how you deal with your general bias against against specialty cables. And furthermore did you perform your listening test after you reviewed your measurement. did you really want to hear a difference?
Click to expand...
You mean one's prior of mental state determines if something sounds different, reality be damned? If so, I rest my case. :)
 
Judas said:
How is that you now what audiophiiles hear? Since you would have to in order to conclude "it" was there all the time?
Click to expand...
Because I "hear" the same things they hear. I have been to audio shows where the guy puts a thumb tack on the wall and asks if sound improved, and most everyone raises their hand, including me! OK, I did not raise my hand. :) But I too hear such effects when I focus on what is being played, naturally hearing more detail, better fidelity, etc. I also have far more subjectivist audio friends than objectivists so know first hand what they think they hear.

Beyond this, you are challenging that your doctor can never know what is wrong with you because he is not sick like you.
 
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