Do Fancy Audio Cables Make a Difference? (video)

[RexrothPigeon]

Speedskater, I agree with you, but somehow we would like to stay away from certain cables, like when we are not sure about the quality. Today, one of the biggest problems is the fact that copper has become very expensive, and the industry pushes cheap alloys that are too brittle, prone to corrosion, in addition to lacking mechanical strength. As these cables are impractically brittle, they are very prone to mechanical failure. Mechanical stress also causes their galvanic coating (usually copper) to be nicked or scraped, paving the way for rapid corrosion. The poor-quality cables have a nasty habit of detaching from terminals and showing very poor soldering characteristics. You can expect borderline electrical characteristics from such cheap cables, which may or may not affect sound quality. I would stay away from subpar items like these. So, in my opinion, while you are spot on about how unimportant cables are in your stereo setup, one should also consider the current quality problem with many no-name cables. Always get a decent cable, not necessarily an expensive one.

Never an expensive one that's just asinine. Buy cheap, functional cables, and if they shit the bed (poor connections or whatever), buy new ones shrug emoji

 

[DSDTools]

Might be time for a nice tear-down type review of cables including measurements? Hard to know about quality sometimes from the sellers.

If you are trying to detect a meaningful difference in the signal among various brands or cheap vs expensive, the answer is rather straightforward: you can't. The ranges we are measuring in terms of resistance and capacitance do not affect the audible frequency range. If you are doing this as a group test where several people sit and rate the cables, then you need a switch box, which is inherently lossy but may still work nonetheless. However, I still expect results to be nearer to random. One might argue inductance can play a role here, but it can't. With these cable runs and gauges, the worst-case scenario indicated less than 0.1db change, and this occurs in the higher end of the audio frequency range, which is already close to the audible threshold (many of us probably don't hear it anyway, and it is not very busy in terms of musical content after all). I could do this to shed a decisive light, but I can't afford to buy all the cables available on the market. Nor do I have the reputation where companies send me their cables for testing. Moreover, I have indicated my bias initially; no one would trust their cables with someone who believes in scientific information rather than psychoacoustics.

 

[DSDTools]

As a side note, we shouldn't underestimate the psychological factor here. Some people go and buy a bottle of Royal Salute because some whisky connoisseurs swear by it, while those who know what they are doing laugh at the crazy sums paid for it. Some people buy Rolex while it is universally accepted that it is neither the most accurate nor the most practical way to tell the time in this age of technology. There are hundreds of other luxury items with questionable merits. But they make you look and feel rich. If adding a two-thousand-dollar cable to your audio setup makes it more valuable in the real world because many other people share the same knowledge or understanding about cables, then there is nothing wrong in doing that. You get endorsed and wowed by them. As another side note, I don't want to belittle any brand. Rolex is an unbelievably well-made watch. And it wouldn't be possible to produce such an excellent product without thousands of people paying those huge sums. And it is already next to impossible to build for any money a timepiece that will beat a medium-priced digital watch. Rolex is perceived more like a work of art. And Royal Salute has a loyal fanbase. Their choice, their money.

 

[geol]

Even my favorite hi-fi shop advised me against buying expensive HDMI cables (though they do sell them; they're afraid I'll come back).
I've had several problems with this type of wires, which I'm going to try resoldering with sturdier connectors.
At first, I thought the TV was broken, since I bought it used for a few dozen dollars, but it's not.
The others I've had for decades (Scart, Ushiden, YUV/RGB) have always worked.

 

[Chrispy]

If you are trying to detect a meaningful difference in the signal among various brands or cheap vs expensive, the answer is rather straightforward: you can't. The ranges we are measuring in terms of resistance and capacitance do not affect the audible frequency range. If you are doing this as a group test where several people sit and rate the cables, then you need a switch box, which is inherently lossy but may still work nonetheless. However, I still expect results to be nearer to random. One might argue inductance can play a role here, but it can't. With these cable runs and gauges, the worst-case scenario indicated less than 0.1db change, and this occurs in the higher end of the audio frequency range, which is already close to the audible threshold (many of us probably don't hear it anyway, and it is not very busy in terms of musical content after all). I could do this to shed a decisive light, but I can't afford to buy all the cables available on the market. Nor do I have the reputation where companies send me their cables for testing. Moreover, I have indicated my bias initially; no one would trust their cables with someone who believes in scientific information rather than psychoacoustics.

LOL no, I meant tear down as in physical tear down for construction as well as measurments....this is ASR. Sitting and rating cables is likely not going to produce much at best Just a way for people to see what the differences are....but it can be an expensive test

 

[egellings]

RG-58U for me. Pabst Blue Ribbon!

 

[AJM1981]

I know that there are topics about overpriced cables. I get that it is all marketing.

Thing is that all the loudspeaker cables available tick the 'it just works' boxes and none of them seem to tick anything else on the technical list. But I noticed something, that I can better explain with levels.

Level 0.5: Cheapest thinnest gray loudspeaker cable with copper strands.
I get the idea that the fact these type of cables exist is the trap set for audiophiles, as these arrived after the standard power cables in time. They are cheap as compared to other so called speaker cables, but more expensive than a power cable made into one.)
Pro's: it works. But almost no pro's. They are relatively expensive compared to a sturdy average power cable. Maybe the fact that you have direct access to the wire, without having going through a mantle is a plus. (?)
Cons: too many. They are terrible to strip, there is almost no "flesh", it is often hard to see what represents + and - and when hotswapping you need to restrip them again. Always losing strands. Terrible for attaching bananaplugs as they are heavier compared to the cables.

Level 2: a "little thicker" speaker cables
They work fine, the polarity has better visibility, often a full red black mantle. But the fact of losing strands is still there, little better for attaching banana plugs, but still a lot of headweight when doing so, in bare use sort of ok.

Level 3: random power cable
One can get a power cable from the cheap diy store for a few euros, strip it, attach it. Done.
Pro's: cheap, excellent to work with (strippability), great shielding (if necessary), cons: Mostly just white and an ugly match. Unless you have white loudspeakers, white furniture and white walls. But in general excellent stuff and a no brainer for when the cables are hidden anyway.

Level 3.5: sturdy mantle with tinned copper strands.
My personal favorite when it comes to hot swapping or working with in bare wire. Tinned copper almost feels as sturdy as steel in relative sense. Perfect for hot swapping and really sustainable. I have no idea about price as once I got a free set when I bought my loudspeakers at the end of the 90s.

Level 4.
To create a sturdy cable with banana plugs that look good or get a decent good looking cheap pre-made cable. (Between 15 and 30 Euro per cable, maybe)

Why it is level 4? Most level 1 to 3 cables do well with loudspeakers out of times that the backside of the cabinet was an afterthought. The backsides of loudspeakers nowadays are often as well optically designed as the front ánd visible. I prefer something that matches when the backside is visible too. It is by far not about sound. It is not even about shielding). It is just that I dont like a fishing line dangling from something that is well optically designed.

Everything beyond this, is just madness in my opinion and I am still surprised that 'any' cables with bananaplugs are not like a random set of average RCA for a reasonable price. As soon you see cables with plugs attached anywhere. Second hand or new, it is "almost" always treated like a small world wonder by marketeers and consumers.

Can we just dump marketing and pull audio stuff back to a level of "normal"?