Do Fancy Audio Cables Make a Difference? (video)

[Holmz]

Those two camps are meaningful? Neither are particularly interesting or effective particularly.

I don’t now…
Where do you want to start?

Probably the metal camp, as it is imbued with crystal junctions in the metal as well as something to do with colour and the conductivity of the particular element.

I am not sure whether there are other camps, but those two kind of stick out.
At least the battery things are designed to fix a problem with the dielectric that cannot be measured.
Of course if they worked, I am sure that they would have provided some graphs.

 

[Chrispy]

I don’t now…
Where do you want to start?

Probably the metal camp, as it is imbued with crystal junctions in the metal as well as something to do with colour and the conductivity of the particular element.

I am not sure whether there are other camps, but those two kind of stick out.
At least the battery things are designed to fix a problem with the dielectric that cannot be measured.
Of course if they worked, I am sure that they would have provided some graphs.

LOL that's not a start, just some weird claim. Nonsense mostly.

 

[sonitus mirus]

I don’t now…
Where do you want to start?

Probably the metal camp, as it is imbued with crystal junctions in the metal as well as something to do with colour and the conductivity of the particular element.

I am not sure whether there are other camps, but those two kind of stick out.
At least the battery things are designed to fix a problem with the dielectric that cannot be measured.
Of course if they worked, I am sure that they would have provided some graphs.

Every audio "problem" can be measured, otherwise, how would any solution be designed?

 

[Holmz]

LOL that's not a start, just some weird claim. Nonsense mostly.

Whoa… don’t shoot the messenger.

You can read all sorts of stuff about the various metals making a difference.
All of it usually is without graphs/proof.

 

[AndyBell]

You can read all sorts of stuff about the various metals making a difference.

Change that to ‘read all sorts of claims…’

Anyone can claim anything. And they do.

As a general rule, if someone has rock solid evidence they present it. Claims not backed up with evidence lack credibility…

 

[Holmz]

Change that to ‘read all sorts of claims…’

Anyone can claim anything. And they do.

As a general rule, if someone has rock solid evidence they present it. Claims not backed up with evidence lack credibility…

Yes - you got it!

 

[Panelhead]

I accidentally did an unsighted cable test once for a group. Hosted a group from Texas Bottlehead. Wanted to show off my self modified Marantz SA-8260 disc player.
There was a selection of equipment brought by attendees. After a few hours I hooked up my stock 8260. Played a couple tracks.
Went to swap out with the unit with lots of parts swapped out. Someone had brought an AR brand interconnect, To demonstrate how this 15 - 20 USD interconnect was as good as needed. Used it.
Hooked up modified player, grabbed one of my homemade cables with 26ga solid core 6/9 wire, cotton dielectric insulation, and original Eichmann Bullet Plug RCA connectors.
Played the same tracks. The audience (20 people really into sound) all said my modified 8260 was several levels about the stock player. Sounded like a 10,000.00 Playback Designs or Meitner disc player. Did sound like a different animal.
Decided to swap out to allow someone with a 80.00 modified DVD player to hook up for the group to hear. Group asked if digital output from Marantz disc spinner could be used to feed to cheap DVD player My modified unit had a plug on digital output to terminate at 50 ohms.
When I went to remove, saw there was none. Somehow when swapping between 8260’s the stock unit was removed and put back in. We had listened to the stock unit twice.
The difference in playback was all generated from replacing the AR branded RCA cables with the homemade cabling.
Later I tried a gimme cable back upstairs in my system. The difference I heard from cable swap was huge. My modified SA-8260 was almost identical to the stock unit. All the capacitors, bypasses, physical dampening, clock change, and digital output termination made almost no difference.
For those who some who think either everything makes a difference AND the group who think nothing makes a difference, maybe an unsighted test is needed.
Many items do not make any difference. Some items do make a difference. We just need to listen to hear them. Not dismiss automatically.
I think RCA connector transmission is flawed. Both analog and digital. I was using Amphenol TWINAXIAL BNC connectors when building my own gear. BW is 4Ghz. Could go SE or balanced. True pieces of art in construction.
I think the superiority of proper XLR cables levels the playing field. When connected as designed the connector and cabling used are not really audible. Maybe measurable.

 

[RandomEar]

For those who some who think either everything makes a difference AND the group who think nothing makes a difference, maybe an unsighted test is needed.

But you specifically did not do that. At least as far as you explained in the post, you did change something and everybody listening to the setup knew that you changed something and expected to hear a difference (due to the mods in the player which then wasn't actually connected). You accidentally changed the wrong thing, but this test is still neither blind nor well controlled in any other way. This is a prime example of a biased test.

Also, the long switching time makes the comparison even less reliable, due to the very short echoic memory we have. Contrary to the belief held in audiophile circles that you need long listening sessions to hear small differences, the opposite is actually true and has been proven: You absolutely need the ability to switch extremely quickly (ideally <1 s). And in my experience in ABX testing, very short segments of only a couple of seconds offer the most reliable results once you have identified the actual differences.

So: Same flaws as in most others posts claiming to hear differences. I encourage you to actually try a real, well controlled blind test some time. I am sure you will be surprised by the results.

 

[DSDTools]

An ideal signal cable introduces two values to the circuit it is in: resistance and capacitance. In practice, there are other shortcomings, such as poor conductivity and shielding problems. Some of these only concern very poor-quality cables.


Let's start with audio interconnects: a one-meter cable will have a resistance value between 0.02 and 0.1 ohms. Their capacitance values will typically fall into the 100–130 pF range. With these values, the interconnect will function as a low-pass filter with a cutoff frequency close to 16 MHz. Microphonics is a concern, but it's more relevant to cases with excessive cable movement — live concerts — or sensitive gear like tube amplifiers and phono stages.


So why is there a perceived difference? There's a certain quality level expected of any cable. It takes something like $15 to make a decent one. A well-made $15–20 cable is identical to a $500 cable. Everything else is psychoacoustics.


And no, a silver cable will not sound any different from a copper one. You can safely say the same about a gold cable, if such a thing exists. There should be no difference between well-engineered cables regardless of what conductor is used in their construction.


Aluminum might be an extreme case here, since there's a noticeable resistivity difference between copper and aluminum. Still, if the cable is new and mechanically sound, you won't hear any difference.


Cable break-in is a myth that has never been proven. And the big batteries are make-believe inventions.

 

[DSDTools]

Speaker cables follow the same logic, with one key difference: they need to handle high current. If a cable can't, problems will show up. In most cases, these will be barely noticeable — but if a cable is absurdly undersized for the load, it can mask or shift certain frequencies, overheat, and even fail during bass-heavy passages.

 

[VientoB]

An ideal signal cable introduces two values to the circuit it is in: resistance and capacitance. In practice, there are other shortcomings, such as poor conductivity and shielding problems. Some of these only concern very poor-quality cables.


Let's start with audio interconnects: a one-meter cable will have a resistance value between 0.02 and 0.1 ohms. Their capacitance values will typically fall into the 100–130 pF range. With these values, the interconnect will function as a low-pass filter with a cutoff frequency close to 16 MHz. Microphonics is a concern, but it's more relevant to cases with excessive cable movement — live concerts — or sensitive gear like tube amplifiers and phono stages.


So why is there a perceived difference? There's a certain quality level expected of any cable. It takes something like $15 to make a decent one. A well-made $15–20 cable is identical to a $500 cable. Everything else is psychoacoustics.


And no, a silver cable will not sound any different from a copper one. You can safely say the same about a gold cable, if such a thing exists. There should be no difference between well-engineered cables regardless of what conductor is used in their construction.


Aluminum might be an extreme case here, since there's a noticeable resistivity difference between copper and aluminum. Still, if the cable is new and mechanically sound, you won't hear any difference.


Cable break-in is a myth that has never been proven. And the big batteries are make-believe inventions.

Even a badly made $1 cable will sound fine if the signal path is sound.spending more is only about durability, not sound improvement.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

It takes something like $15 to make a decent one.

Considerably less than that given an efficient mass production facility located in a low-wage country. Moreover, measurements prove that a cable that goes for $5 USD at retail can be more than "decent" enough -- and that price includes hefty profit margins for the retailer and the importer added on to the manufacturing and shipping costs.

 

[Panelhead]

I have built 100’s of line level cables. Used RCA, 1/4”, XLR, twin axial BNC, and 3 pin DIN to terminate. Used multiple brands of connectors. Sometimes mixed to allow connecting devices with different jacks.
Like to THINK the less metal mass the better. The one that stands out is the original Eichmann Bullet plug. Do not know why. May be how tight they fit.

I have large strong hands. It takes real effort to install and remove. I have heard of people breaking the plugs and breaking the jacks on their equipment. Think is technique. Push and pull straight. Installed and removed a 1000 times, never broke any.
The reason they fit so tight is the plastic barrel. Undersized. The ground pin rides proud on plastic. It is squeezed tightly into the shell of the jack Eichmann claims it reduces eddy currents in the RCA jack shell. The later KLEI brand Eichmann plugs do not fit as tight. Do not “sound” as good as original.
Monster Cable made some oversized RCA plugs also. But the pin is what they over sized. Switching back if you used cables with the correct OD pin they were intermittent. Got a very bad reputation by damaging the RCA jacks on equipment.

From my use, soldering up, using, and sometimes reusing my faves.

RCA - original Eichmann plugs. Nothing else close.
1/4” TRS - AMPHENOL T3P then Neutrik.
XLR - Neutrik, the AMPHENOL. Especially old 91-853 and 91-854 plugs.
Twinaxual BNC. AMPHENOL.
3 pin DIN - Delton and then Swichcraft.
Some old plugs I wanted to love just do not endure. The 60’s - early 70’s Switchcraft XLR with phenolic insulator sleeve. Indestructible, works of art. Sonically bright and edgy. May be age. Been sitting in drawers for 60 years. The contacts are still shiny. The same vintage AMPHENOL XLR’s have contacts turned dark brown. Sound normal.
Call me delusional, crazy, or OCD. That is how I have so many line level cables. Hundreds and hundreds. Almost 40 years worth.
Just do not call me deaf.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

Call me delusional, crazy, or OCD.

I hear and obey.

BTW, I agree that the Switchcraft A3M and A3F are excellent. "Sonically bright and edgy" -- not so much...

 

[solderdude]

Only the black versions do not sound bright and edgy, they sound rather dark.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Everything else is psychoacoustics.

This word does not mean what you think it means

 

[VientoB]

I have built 100’s of line level cables. Used RCA, 1/4”, XLR, twin axial BNC, and 3 pin DIN to terminate. Used multiple brands of connectors. Sometimes mixed to allow connecting devices with different jacks.
Like to THINK the less metal mass the better. The one that stands out is the original Eichmann Bullet plug. Do not know why. May be how tight they fit.

I have large strong hands. It takes real effort to install and remove. I have heard of people breaking the plugs and breaking the jacks on their equipment. Think is technique. Push and pull straight. Installed and removed a 1000 times, never broke any.
The reason they fit so tight is the plastic barrel. Undersized. The ground pin rides proud on plastic. It is squeezed tightly into the shell of the jack Eichmann claims it reduces eddy currents in the RCA jack shell. The later KLEI brand Eichmann plugs do not fit as tight. Do not “sound” as good as original.
Monster Cable made some oversized RCA plugs also. But the pin is what they over sized. Switching back if you used cables with the correct OD pin they were intermittent. Got a very bad reputation by damaging the RCA jacks on equipment.

From my use, soldering up, using, and sometimes reusing my faves.

RCA - original Eichmann plugs. Nothing else close.
1/4” TRS - AMPHENOL T3P then Neutrik.
XLR - Neutrik, the AMPHENOL. Especially old 91-853 and 91-854 plugs.
Twinaxual BNC. AMPHENOL.
3 pin DIN - Delton and then Swichcraft.
Some old plugs I wanted to love just do not endure. The 60’s - early 70’s Switchcraft XLR with phenolic insulator sleeve. Indestructible, works of art. Sonically bright and edgy. May be age. Been sitting in drawers for 60 years. The contacts are still shiny. The same vintage AMPHENOL XLR’s have contacts turned dark brown. Sound normal.
Call me delusional, crazy, or OCD. That is how I have so many line level cables. Hundreds and hundreds. Almost 40 years worth.
Just do not call me deaf.

You're not deaf. It's psychological.

 

[Speedskater]

Speaker cables follow the same logic, with one key difference: they need to handle high current. If a cable can't, problems will show up. In most cases, these will be barely noticeable — but if a cable is absurdly undersized for the load, it can mask or shift certain frequencies, overheat, and even fail during bass-heavy passages.

It's hard to image any reasonable speaker cable that can't handle all the music current from the largest power amplifiers.
Heck, 14AWG can handle 100 Amps of music current all day.
The difference might be in high end-to-end resistance and multi-driver loudspeaker.

 

[DSDTools]

Speedskater, I agree with you, but somehow we would like to stay away from certain cables, like when we are not sure about the quality. Today, one of the biggest problems is the fact that copper has become very expensive, and the industry pushes cheap alloys that are too brittle, prone to corrosion, in addition to lacking mechanical strength. As these cables are impractically brittle, they are very prone to mechanical failure. Mechanical stress also causes their galvanic coating (usually copper) to be nicked or scraped, paving the way for rapid corrosion. The poor-quality cables have a nasty habit of detaching from terminals and showing very poor soldering characteristics. You can expect borderline electrical characteristics from such cheap cables, which may or may not affect sound quality. I would stay away from subpar items like these. So, in my opinion, while you are spot on about how unimportant cables are in your stereo setup, one should also consider the current quality problem with many no-name cables. Always get a decent cable, not necessarily an expensive one.

 

[Chrispy]

Speedskater, I agree with you, but somehow we would like to stay away from certain cables, like when we are not sure about the quality. Today, one of the biggest problems is the fact that copper has become very expensive, and the industry pushes cheap alloys that are too brittle, prone to corrosion, in addition to lacking mechanical strength. As these cables are impractically brittle, they are very prone to mechanical failure. Mechanical stress also causes their galvanic coating (usually copper) to be nicked or scraped, paving the way for rapid corrosion. The poor-quality cables have a nasty habit of detaching from terminals and showing very poor soldering characteristics. You can expect borderline electrical characteristics from such cheap cables, which may or may not affect sound quality. I would stay away from subpar items like these. So, in my opinion, while you are spot on about how unimportant cables are in your stereo setup, one should also consider the current quality problem with many no-name cables. Always get a decent cable, not necessarily an expensive one.

Might be time for a nice tear-down type review of cables including measurements? Hard to know about quality sometimes from the sellers.