Do Fancy Audio Cables Make a Difference? (video)

[SIY]

I reject the explanation.

Since it's vastly the most probable one, it's the first thing you ought to check.

 

[Doodski]

I consider content more important than form, and I find that insinuating that someone's trolling/flamebaiting is much more disrespectful than saying shit and fuck.
We're all adults anyway. As long as there's no insult, some spice is fun


Well, I still didn't quite understand all the theory of how things are supposed to sound, because even having the musicians in front of me it would sound different depending on the room where they play, how many people there are, which speakers are being used, etc.
Sure, it's a recording, and it has precise qualities which the playback setup should be able to mirror as much as possible, but there too, you ask person A and they'll swear that vynil are best, person B will say CD, person C Hi-Res FLAC.
With all variables, most notably the DAC and the headphones (or the speakers/room combo), it's freaking exhausting trying to get that sneaky pure sound that nobody really knows if it exists in the first place.
And even hardcore audiophiles talk of their expensive headphones tube amp with that delicious slight warmth.
For instance I just found out that the Wicked Cushion earpads for the Maxwell sound different than the Geekria, more intimate, warmer and with more bass, derspite having same external materials and almost same dimensions (just half cm less in horizontal space inside. I suppose that together with their denser foam it's enough to affect the sound differently). And I was contemplating keeping both, and using the Wicked Cushion when I listen to Techno and other bass heavy music.

Btw, the Golden Gate was only 35 Euro for 1.5m... I don't think it's an unreasonable price for just only a robust and well isolated cable.
But I totally understand the concept and I agree.


ONE message. The rest is from today.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Weirdness too. We always only see what we have inside


Fair enough.
I reject the explanation. I'm like Saint Thomas, even if Jesus tell me X, if what I see and hear is Y that's what counts for me.
But although I reject it I don't discard it or forget it.
If one day I'll have the chance, I will definitely run a blind test. As I said before, curiosity is the core of every science.


If you're talking of me, you heavily misunderstood my sharing.
I disliked the AudioQuest BECAUSE it colored the sound.
I ended choosing the Mogami BECAUSE it was the one which sounded more transparent, open, "pure".
If the Mogami would have looked as ugly and felt as unpleasantly rough and stiff as the AudioQuest, I would have most probably just been happy with the KabelDirekt for 7.50 Euro instead of 30, which I am still not sure if it sounded any different than the Mogami (= less transparent and open).
But again, I disagree that color = bad.
I'm not aware of any setup that can achieve perfect neutrality, and my brain refuses to even want to understand if such a thing is even possible, like I explained to, ah, it was you , a few lines here above.
For me, music is meant to be enjoyed. If I am happier with a bit more bass or a bit more highs or a bit more warmth, I couldn't care less that my setup is not neutral.
Matter of tastes, more than matter of belief, for me personally.


Cheers, it was insightful

It seems you came here looking for answers and then dislike the answers and use your time here to discount them. You are gabbing with experts you know and some of them are heavy duty advanced experts but yet you go on.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Aliens ate my Buick.

 

[MAB]

I am perfectionist, obsessive, and experienced in comparisons of many kinds.

Like this guy?

 

[JSmith]

But again, I disagree that color = bad.

I don't believe anyone said this?

Colour should be added to taste via EQ or at least tone controls... not by a cable.

Cables should not be used as tone controls and in 99.9% of cases can't be used as such anyway.


JSmith

 

[StigErik]

I want to shelf my bass up 6 dB at 20 Hz. Please recommend a cable that can do that !

 

[VintageFlanker]

I'm not an expert by any means

That goes without saying. You better stick to that and listen to those who actually are.

Especially when a dozen come here to explain the very same concept, but you sure don't wanna listen. Also, please watch your words. Fuck is barely tolerated around here, especially when used several times by post.

Otherwise, welcome. Live and learn.

Cheers.

 

[Tim Link]

If you're satisfied that you are really hearing a difference and want to know why, you're going to have to measure something to get a meaningful answer. I once thought I heard a difference between amplifiers, so I measured the amp's response through my speakers. I repeatedly went back and forth measuring my speaker's output between the two different amps that sounded different, and one consistently showed an uptilted response in the treble. I can't submit that as a scientific paper because it's not rigorous enough. But it's pretty hard to explain away as something random going on in the room, and that was enough to satisfy my curiosity. Later someone did a more thorough test on a similar amp from the same manufacturer and posted it on this forum using test equipment on the amp's output instead of just measuring the speaker response in the room. Their test also showed elevated treble. Not sure why those amps do that, but I got my answer verified.

 

[HammersRocco]

Fair enough.
I reject the explanation. I'm like Saint Thomas, even if Jesus tell me X, if what I see and hear is Y that's what counts for me.
But although I reject it I don't discard it or forget it.
If one day I'll have the chance, I will definitely run a blind test. As I said before, curiosity is the core of every science.

I beg you, don't trust your fallible human senses. They have steered us wrong in the past. The body of knowledge re: cables tells us you are making a highly improbable claim. Your senses are not proof of it, no matter if you are the comparisons master. Cables are not equalizers nor any other kind of audio processing circuits. Or in the case of digital cables they don't do DSP either.

 

[HammersRocco]

FYI (no, it's not fuck yourself idiot, it's really just for your info)

THE LANGUAGE! AGAIN!

TBF, my innocent mind haven't come up with that, not even once, whenever I see "FYI"
Veiled insults are not that smart - again, you even more thin skinned that I am. Cool it before the moderators see it, I recommend.

 

[Infinite100]

Since it's vastly the most probable one, it's the first thing you ought to check.

I tested the cables 3 days straight several hours a day with many songs and at some point it was like a blind test because in many occasions I had no idea anymore what I had plugged (I had a system where I didn't need to watch) and I had to check to be sure.
EVERY SINGLE TIME that I felt that the sound was warmer and I checked what was plugged, it was the Golden Gate.
Also, although the Mogami and the Golden Gate could be distinguished by touch, the Evergreen (which "sounded" like the Mogami) was just like the Golden Gate, so when I was quickly comparing Evergreen and Golden Gate over and over again I really 100% did not know what I had plugged unless I checked afterwards.

It seems that you all are convinced that just because a bunch of you say that it's impossible I have to believe that it's impossible or I am a stubborn superstitious cave man who's resisting the wisdom of you Olympian Gods.
That's never been and will never be how science works.
You are not giving any PROOF that what I say it's 100% absolutely impossible no matter what.
So why should I believe you more than what I experienced?
You're not even keeping a benefit of the doubt until I'll have a chance to get my hands on another one and do a blind test. You just DECIDED that it IS impossible PERIOD and are determined to convince me of it while treating me like I am trying to convince you just because I stick with my feeling (which I have no interest to instill in anybody else).

Also, it's been repeated ENOUGH that it's supposedly placebo.
If thousand more people come and make fun of me with passive aggressive comments just because I don't go on my knees and cry "omg, thank you so much for your wisdom", it starts feeling not like help but like group trolling.
And then the mod says I should not say fuck...

I don't believe anyone said this?

Colour should be added to taste via EQ or at least tone controls... not by a cable.

I don't believe I ever said that it should be purposedly achieved with a cable.
But if a cable, that according to the renowned manufacturer has hyperbolic specs and it's been tested by many people also in more scientific ways than mine (feel free to google) and rated outstanding, happens to sound a bit warmer than others TO MY EARS (= maybe it's the other cables that are not good enough and I'm the ignorant with bad taste for V shaped sound who mistakes a neutral pristine sound as "warmer"), and I happen to like it, and I have spare money to afford a second cable at 35 euro, I buy them both like I was tempted to do and I might have done if the Golden Gate wasn't ugly and a pain in the ass to handle (stiff, coated in very rough nylon, felt uncomfortable when turning my head).
Like I will most probably keep the Wicked Cushion earpads (which being a bit smaller and denser have the effect of a more intimate sound with a quality of warmth and an extra hump in the bass, that can't be achieved with EQ on these headphones) as extra pair for when I do a Techno marathon.
The quality of warmth that the Golden Gate gave to the sound wasn't so intense to be qualified as "wtf is this crap?". It was subtle and didn't feel like something that was making the sound "not neutral". It was a bit like the difference between the FiiO KA1 and the iFi GO Link (with the Mogami being the FiiO, and the Golden Gate the iFi).
There are headphone tube amps which cost xxxx instead of 35 Euro and give LOT more warmth and I have never seen anybody say they are WRONG.
Eventually people have different sets of tubes for different purposes or other ways to tweak the sound for when they want it more "neutral".
Same with the cable, I could use one or the other depending on my mood.
So, it's all subjective. At least until it's measured in an objective way. Which I couldn't have done even if I still had it here.

I want to shelf my bass up 6 dB at 20 Hz. Please recommend a cable that can do that !

Oh, I am in awe at your clever comment. Excellent. Fine, elegant. Masterpiece.
It has nothing to do with what I wrote but who cares about these details...

That goes without saying. You better stick to that and listen to those who actually are.

Especially when a dozen come here to explain the very same concept, but you sure don't wanna listen. Also, please watch your words. Fuck is barely tolerated around here, especially when used several times by post.

Then have me banned, go for it, I really couldn't care less. A place where group trolling is considered normal and even glorified as "we're trying to help but you are so stubborn and don't wanna listen" (aka you need to give us proof but we don't need to give any to you), while I can't say "I don't give a shit about convincing anybody" and "make of this whatever the fuck you want" to someone who has just accused me of purposedly lying for flamebaiting, is not a place that I will miss anyway.

But funnily enough, another donor like you in the first page of this thread posted a link to another post on this forum, and the first sentence was "I've heard tons of bullshit about highend cables".
But I guess that in that case it's ok because the opinion aligns with the trend in this forum?

 

[Infinite100]

If you're satisfied that you are really hearing a difference and want to know why, you're going to have to measure something to get a meaningful answer.

I don't possess neither the instruments nor the knowledge to do such tests.
But I will do a blind test when I get the chance.
Thanks for sharing

I beg you, don't trust your fallible human senses.

I don't. I am not saying that my experience is objective. I KNOW that I tested in a way which in many occasions was very close to a blind test, and I know what I felt. So I know that something is different with that cable. And this has been confirmed in several reviews like I said in the previous comment.
But I don't know if my perception of "warmth" is correct or comes from my listening habits that are a bit V shaped, and from my psychoacoustic circumstances, ears, etc.
I am only describing what I experienced, without doing any further claims.
But that doesn't mean that I have to trust people who are not giving me an ounce of proof that what I experienced is absolutely impossible.
So I'm replying again and again (because apparently people won't stop telling me that it's placebo until I say "you're right, thanks"), that ATM, in absence of more objective proofs in favor or against my experience, I stick with it and I will deepen it with a blind test when I'll get the chance.
But it's not me the one who's vehemently trying to convince the other side of something here... That much I hope is clear.

And about the language, I want to hope you were being as humorous as the comment you referred to
Otherwise you need to rename this forum "audioscientologyreview" because it starts feeling like a church with this level of strictness about language...

 

[Jimbob54]

Merged a new thread into here

 

[oleg87]

I don't think it was placebo.
But I'd be VERY surprised if that was the case.

You and every other person who's done no real amount of critical listening with good controls for sighted bias. I think you will find actually doing so both enlightening and humbling - doing this for electronics is obviously challenging without the appropriate equipment, but you can test lots of things with software ABX tools. Not really much of value to discuss here.

 

[voodooless]

I don't think it was placebo.

It’s irrelevant what you think. Reality doesn’t care about your feeling.

I am perfectionist, obsessive, and experienced in comparisons of many kinds.

Clearly not in comparing audio components.

I reject the explanation. I'm like Saint Thomas, even if Jesus tell me X, if what I see and hear is Y that's what counts for me.

But that doesn’t mean that you have to reject the explanation…

But although I reject it I don't discard it or forget it.

What does that even mean then?

I tested the cables 3 days straight several hours a day with many songs and at some point it was like a blind test because in many occasions I had no idea anymore what I had plugged (I had a system where I didn't need to watch) and I had to check to be sure.

That is not at all like a properly controlled blind test.

It seems that you all are convinced that just because a bunch of you say that it's impossible I have to believe that it's impossible or I am a stubborn superstitious cave man who's resisting the wisdom of you Olympian Gods.

It’s not supernatural wisdom that is needed to come to the conclusion that cables do not matter. It’s science. You should not and don’t have to believe in science. The good things that science models the real world, so it’s is predictive in nature, and therefore it also gives a repeatable framework to confirm it’s findings. So we don’t expect to just believe anything we say. Some have given you some good pointers to eliminate biases already to create a more objective comparison.

It seems you are willing to give it a try, so kudos for that! And don’t worry, all of us here experienced similar things as you have, and still do regularly.

 

[GXAlan]

I don't possess neither the instruments nor the knowledge to do such tests.
But I will do a blind test when I get the chance.
Thanks for sharing

This is the power of measurements and tools. Think about how much money you spent on cables. This site can give you the knowledge you need to analyze what you hear. Get an E1DA Cosmos ADC and Multitone and Deltawave and you are on your way. Look at my posts that talk about PK Metric. DSD vs CD, DACs, etc.

You want to know the scientific reason for what you are hearing? The power of ASR is that you will have the support to answer the questions for yourself

 

[boxerfan88]

I am only describing what I experienced, without doing any further claims.
But that doesn't mean that I have to trust people who are not giving me an ounce of proof that what I experienced is absolutely impossible.

Here's a recent video that is related to the topic at hand. Some interesting points made about quality components (incl. cable) in the signal path and how it may make a difference in sound. I found some points made kinda interesting. Example: air-core inductor vs. ferrite-core inductor and how the temporary stored energy in the ferrite core might "smear" the sound. I think the inductance/capacitance of a cable depending on the material & construction might affect transmitted sound in a small way.

 

[Beave]

Here's a recent video that is related to the topic at hand. Some interesting points made about quality components (incl. cable) in the signal path and how it may make a difference in sound. I found some points made kinda interesting. Example: air-core inductor vs. ferrite-core inductor and how the temporary stored energy in the ferrite core might "smear" the sound.

Does he supply any measurements for "smearing" the sound? Or measurements showing sufficiently gross differences in cable to reach audible thresholds?

Or are we supposed to take Danny at his word because he's a self-proclaimed expert?

 

[boxerfan88]

Does he supply any measurements for "smearing" the sound? Or measurements showing sufficiently gross differences in cable to reach audible thresholds?

Or are we supposed to take Danny at his word because he's a self-proclaimed expert?

Have you watched the video? I definitely didn’t tell you to take his words. Surely you’re mature enough to decide for yourself what words to take or not take?

 

[voodooless]

Some interesting points made about quality components (incl. cable) in the signal path and how it may make a difference in sound. I found some points made kinda interesting.

So what interesting points are made? It's a 40+ min video rant, and I tried the first 8 minutes and it bored me to hell. Not gonna watch the whole thing.

Example: air-core inductor vs. ferrite-core inductor and how the temporary stored energy in the ferrite core might "smear" the sound.

But those things are not in a cable... So why is that even relevant? You can't just make those kinds of extrapolations.

I think the inductance/capacitance of a cable depending on the material & construction might affect transmitted sound in a small way.

We can measure those things, model them, and tell you what influence they might have. In the vast majority of cases, there is no audible issues unless the cable is severely misconstructed.