Do Audio Speakers Break-in?

[carewser]

This guy is a loudspeaker design legend and begs to differ.

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

I don't know who "this guy" is since that link features two guys, neither of which i've ever heard of from two companies i've never heard of but then i've only been into hi-fi since the early '80's so i'd like to know who considers either of them "legends"

I think speakers burn in periods are total bullshit

 

[RayDunzl]

I know something about psychoacoustics and your many effects need justification: Name one psychoacoustic effect in which a group of people hear the same thing (harsh tweeter) and then, after 20 hours of burn-in, when each hears it at different times, independent of the other, without conferring and not knowing what the other said, under the same conditions (room, amp, etc.), they too find it sounds much better. What category of psychoacoustics would you place that in?

My first exposure to an external DAC occurred at Audio Buddy's house.

I was still working (out of town) and he'd had the device for months.

He'd made no mention of a change (it's how we used to test each other).

I thought it sounded shrill, for lack of a better word.

Work intervened, and a couple months later I visited again.

It didn't sound shrill.

Nothing had changed, because he didn't have any toys with which to change things. The speakers and amplification were many years old at the time, and I had heard them many times.

Did another couple of months on the gear suddenly make a difference, or was it me?

 

[carewser]

maybe it was the recording you were listening to then because you didn't mention if you listened to the same one however if you listened to the exact same recording (with no sonic degradation of course) then perhaps speaker break in is real

Companies that offer 30 day in-home listening demos with money back guarantees would obviously like to promote this idea to sell more products but Klipsch is one of the main proponents (but by no means the only) of the notion of speaker break/burn in times and I don't believe they offer it which lends credibility to it

 

[hyfynut]

This guy is a loudspeaker design legend and begs to differ.

http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm

Even Legends say stupid stuff..."These tube connectors will really improve the sound..."

 

[watchnerd]

Even Legends say stupid stuff..."These tube connectors will really improve the sound..."

404 error, too.

 

[maltux]

A true legend - The designer of Harbeth Speakers; Alan Shaw - say they do not! Your ears do!!!!

 

[Lavawood]

https://www.gr-research.com/driver-burn-in.html

 

[watchnerd]

Even if it were true...

Why would it matter?

Am I going to get a bad first impression that I can never overcome if I don't sequester the speakers and let them do their secret burn in process in private where I can't hear them?

 

[Sal1950]

"Do Audio Speakers Break-in?"

Nope, but they can definitely burn out!
Just ask about any prior owner of Phase Linear 700B's

 

[Plcamp]

If breakin were to have any effect at all, I would expect to see it at the region of cone breakup (where the motor has lost control anyway, so suspension effects dominate)...that driver should have been crossed-out anyway?

 

[Tsuchi]

While I truly do appreciate the work Amir has done and the rather thorough tests he typically does, there's just not enough here to put this to rest. Manufacturers in Hi-Fi and professional audio, almost all of them, mention a several hour 'break-in' period for their speakers. This test utilized one speaker and a 3-4 hour run time and concluded myth busted. (Yes Amir also mentioned another test they did at Harman but he did not go into great detail.)

Really, we need to see tests of multiple speakers from different manufacturers and longer run times to argue such a conclusion is likely true. There's not enough data here to support Amir's belief.

I'm hoping to see a much more thorough test in the future. I'd be happy to loan some speakers to him if needed!

 

[Justin Ayers]

I am very grateful for this investigation, amirm.

However, it is overstatement to use one speaker (particularly one speaker type) to make a decision about the entirety of the claim. Even if it seems to be a remote possibility that other speaker types (such as electrostats, ribbons, and planar magnetic "quasi ribbons" ), will change via the procedure it does need to be tested before one can satisfactorily claim that it's a myth.

I have always assumed the break-in thing is a myth but scientific statements must always be made cautiously. Mylar does stretch and sag so perhaps it behaves differently than cones, for instance. If a particular speaker uses large areas of mylar (versus having smaller areas — which should reduce sagging from use if the mylar is the same thickness versus a design with large stretched areas), thinner mylar versus thicker, polyolefin, high voltages with special coatings... those are all variables that need to be tested to rule them out.

My conclusion would have been: "Dynamic* driver speakers do not appear to need a break-in period. Other speaker types, such as planar electrostatic designs that utilize coated mylar, are being tested. It is my assumption that the break-in period is not required for any speaker type — that it has no effect on the sound the speaker produces."

*If this is the correct terminology.

 

[carewser]

Andrew Robinson calls it bullshit:

Robinson makes a good point in the video, how is it that speakers always sound better after burn in?

Joe"N"Tell says it can't be measured:

Danny from GR Research says it's real:

 

[apastuszak]

I swear that the entire point of "burn-in" for audio components is to make sure you can't return something to the store you bought it from. A US store like Best Buy only has a 15 day return window. If a company like Klipsch is recommending 30-40 hours of burn-in for a pair of their speakers, the average consumer with a family will not find enough time in a week to listen to 30-40 hours of music in 15 days. Then your return window closes, and you have to deal with the manufacturer who won't exchange it, if you don't like it. They'll only exchange it if it's broken, and they'll only do it for another pair of the same product.

The other thing may be, as others have suggested. You don't break in your speakers. You break in your ears. By convincing people to "break in" their speakers, they get used to the sound and are less likely to return them.

And the "rules" for burn-in keep changing. When I was a teenager and in my 20s, people burned in speakers by playing white or pink noise through them for hours. I remember finding HUGE MP3 files of "10 hours of white noise for speaker burn in." You were supposed to load than on an iPod and play it overnight on your speakers. Now they're recommending high dynamic range music, which can't easily be found in a 10 hour loop anywhere.

 

[krabapple]

I am very grateful for this investigation, amirm.

However, it is overstatement to use one speaker (particularly one speaker type) to make a decision about the entirety of the claim. Even if it seems to be a remote possibility that other speaker types (such as electrostats, ribbons, and planar magnetic "quasi ribbons" ), will change via the procedure it does need to be tested before one can satisfactorily claim that it's a myth.

I have always assumed the break-in thing is a myth but scientific statements must always be made cautiously. Mylar does stretch and sag so perhaps it behaves differently than cones, for instance. If a particular speaker uses large areas of mylar (versus having smaller areas — which should reduce sagging from use if the mylar is the same thickness versus a design with large stretched areas), thinner mylar versus thicker, polyolefin, high voltages with special coatings... those are all variables that need to be tested to rule them out.

My conclusion would have been: "Dynamic* driver speakers do not appear to need a break-in period. Other speaker types, such as planar electrostatic designs that utilize coated mylar, are being tested. It is my assumption that the break-in period is not required for any speaker type — that it has no effect on the sound the speaker produces."

*If this is the correct terminology.

No speaker break-in believer I have ever encountered in several decades of witnessing outlandish audiophilia, has ever claimed break in *only* applies to 'other' speaker types.

 

[krabapple]

While I truly do appreciate the work Amir has done and the rather thorough tests he typically does, there's just not enough here to put this to rest. Manufacturers in Hi-Fi and professional audio, almost all of them, mention a several hour 'break-in' period for their speakers. This test utilized one speaker and a 3-4 hour run time and concluded myth busted. (Yes Amir also mentioned another test they did at Harman but he did not go into great detail.)

Really, we need to see tests of multiple speakers from different manufacturers and longer run times to argue such a conclusion is likely true. There's not enough data here to support Amir's belief.

I'm hoping to see a much more thorough test in the future. I'd be happy to loan some speakers to him if needed!

I hope you're also asking the manufacturers to supply the evidence for their claims. If not, I trust you are at least, if not more, skeptical of them, as you are of Amir's actual results.

 

[krabapple]

I suggest you take a look at what actually happens in science, for instance see Penrose here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0691119791/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_oeLBFbQYN83V4

I suggest you not try to make silly analogies between the extreme frontiers of physics, which is what Roger Penrose writes about in that book, and *loudspeakers physics*.

 

[krabapple]

My first exposure to an external DAC occurred at Audio Buddy's house.

I was still working (out of town) and he'd had the device for months.

He'd made no mention of a change (it's how we used to test each other).

I thought it sounded shrill, for lack of a better word.

Work intervened, and a couple months later I visited again.

It didn't sound shrill.

Nothing had changed, because he didn't have any toys with which to change things. The speakers and amplification were many years old at the time, and I had heard them many times.

Did another couple of months on the gear suddenly make a difference, or was it me?

Your listening position was exactly the same? His speakers hadn't moved? You didn't have a more or less congestion at t1 than t2? Same degree of restedness/fatigue?

I have 'heard' differences like this, sighted, just in the course of a single day. Pretty sure it's me, not the system.

 

[DualTriode]

My experience with this goes like this,

Speaker “Break In” likely not.

Speaker warm up most definitely.


Using Audio Precision APx555 Analyzer and APx1701 Speaker Test Interface tested Thiele Small / Parameters most definitely change over time.

Take the drivers out of the 40 degree damp California garage and bring them indoors into the warm cozy lab and run the AP TS/P procedure and the measured parameters change over several iterations of the test procedure.

The TS/P’s most definitely show significant change over multiple iterations of the TS/P test procedure.


Thanks DT

 

[jhaider]

Danny from GR Research says it's real:

Luckily Danny Ritchie isn't very clever. If he proclaims something is "TRUTH," then the thinking observer knows he's lying, using slipshod reasoning and misleading, irrelevant measurements to promote his lie, without needing to engage the content.

If he were more clever or less predictable he might get more views.