• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Do Audio Speakers Break-in?

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,408
Location
Seattle Area, USA
But what about cartridge break-in....

They're electro-mechanical transducers, after all, and stylii actually change shape / wear out over time.
 

snurf

Member
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
37
Likes
7
I break in speakers, if they need it, at 'normal' listening levels by recommendation. The reason, I believe, being the glue holding the surround needs to harden slowly. Then I've read that several loudspeaker manufacturers just give the drivers a minute of high power before measurement etc. Most seem to agree that break-in effect is real but not that a minute of high power is ideal. A few secs to a minute, at say 100 dB, must surely 'break in' the driver, but what about sound quality? Many seems to advice against it and recommends quite a lengthy 'break-in'.

'And I'm sure there are
some really stiff woofers that change alot over time, for better
or worse.' - Ken Kantor
 
Last edited:

snurf

Member
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
37
Likes
7
I think if you encounter a driver that needs 'break-in' it's a nonissue since it's self resolving.


Spider stiffness:
 
Last edited:

Steve Dallas

Major Contributor
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
1,201
Likes
2,784
Location
A Whole Other Country
Alan Shaw, Harbeth owner and designer:

"Actually, the real situation is pretty basic stuff. The (usually) yellow suspension ring hidden under the cone, called in the trade the spider, is nothing more or less than resin impregnated woven fabric.

When flexed a few times, the sheet of resin presumably takes on micro fissures, and once that process has occurred - over perhaps the first few hours or so under normal home use, accelerated in the test lab by playing very loud - the fundamental resonance frequency of the woofer drops by a few percent (utterly inaudible, difficult to even measure) and that's it, forever. Any perception that the sound has subjectively improved after hiours, days or weeks is entirely and totally in the listener's imagination. They may well truly believe that, buit it is nothing more than familiarisation, a very common human experience. When I changed car recently I was amazed at the ride, the power and the handling. Two weeks later, it all seemed perfectly unremarkable to me."

Andrew Jones says pretty much exactly the same thing in these interviews. Speakers (specifically the spider and surround) "break in" within a matter of seconds or minutes, and the change is measurable, but not necessarily perceptible.



I'm in the camp of it taking X hours for a person to acclimate to the new sound and/or convince him/herself the money was not wasted.
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,408
Location
Seattle Area, USA
The downside of...

"It's all acclimation"

...is that your new speakers stop sounding "better" as soon as you forget what your old ones sounded like.

Ergo, upgrading speakers is a waste of money.

;)
 

snurf

Member
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
37
Likes
7
So, according to the first video, xmax for a woofer a few minutes below Fs and it's broken in. The spider's compliance will lessen after some time, but never go back to it's original 'new' state. A few seconds at xmax every few months should solve it.

I'm in the camp that claims that some drivers are really stiff and needs the xmax treatment to be able to be articulated. My subwoofers went from boom-boom to making music in matter of few hours without the xmax treatment. That's not in my head and the part 1 video above support it.

But what about some manufacturers claiming that the glue holding the surround needs hours at normal listening level, interspersed with short periods at higher levels, to get a proper hardening?

Still, are some drivers stiff enough to require many hour of break-in? Not sure what to make of this, but a guy named Fahey(Fahey drivers?) claims to have been making and selling speakers for 35 years. From https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/225709-break-real-7.html#post3287218

'So far, so good, but sometimes a customer says "fine, I like it, but let me test the actual cabinet I'm buying, instead of the "test" one.
So we bring a fresh one , set it aside the "Test" one, and simply plug it in.
No time lost in dismounting and remounting speakers as some have mentioned, just 5 seconds switching.
Boy, the difference is *dramatic*.
So much so, that I have
a) been accused of "testing the amps with a *good* speaker, then cheating and delivering a cheaper one" or
b) had to actually deliver the old, used one.'

'....the difference after a couple months of heavy use is *dramatic*.'
 
Last edited:

Lsc

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2020
Messages
406
Likes
383
Lots of voodoo in the world of high end audio.

When I had my F208, the sound changed after about 20 hours or so where I felt it opened up more.
With my F228Be, I haven’t noticed any sound changes.
Who knows, maybe they broke it in during testing. It’s a moot point though bc I’ve had it for a month now and it sounds excellent.
 

Inner Space

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 18, 2020
Messages
1,285
Likes
2,938
Snurf said, "I'm in the camp that claims that some drivers are really stiff ... "

The Fahey example you give seems to be for bass guitar speakers, which by necessity have surrounds that are practically rigid compared to domestic audio units. I'm a bass player, and know that most of us use 800w-and-up Class D amps now, and the accidental pops and thumps we can make would drive a domestic cone straight through the grille cloth and into the room.

Back in the day I worked in studios, and one time took the first shift in a rebuilt control room. Monitors were Tannoy Little Reds, pro units, but not very different from Tannoy's domestic lines. I heard them from minute one, and heard no change or "opening up" ever ... and even after approx 160,000 hours they were no different. (Their amps - pro-line Quads - were powered up and running continuously for 18 years straight. Never turned off. There was also an old EL34 tube amp - admittedly in a non-critical role - that had been running continuously for 34 years. The pro world and the musical instrument world are nothing like domestic audio.)

Hook them up, check they work, and by the time you've settled back in your chair, they're through all the breaking in or settling they'll ever need.
 

Wes

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
3,843
Likes
3,788
you missed an 'and' or a colon or semi-colon or...
 

richard12511

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
4,335
Likes
6,700
When my JBL 308p MKIIs came in a month ago, the first thing I did was A/B them against my JTR 210s, and I thought the 308s sounded terrible(I even commented on this in the thread I created). I was super disappointed in how they sounded. Disappointed, I moved them to my home office, which is where I originally intended to use them. I've been listening to classical while I code at work for the past month or so in my home office, and I have to say that I've really grown to love these speakers. It's hard to compare them to my JTRs now that they're in a different room, but I've really grown to appreciate them now. I really do think there is a break in period, but I think 99.9% of that is in our brain. I think my brain had gotten used to the JTR sound, and that's why the JBL sounded terrible. Eventually, I'll get around to putting them in the same room again to do another comparison.
 

PRL

Member
Joined
May 25, 2020
Messages
23
Likes
11
Andrew Jones says pretty much exactly the same thing in these interviews. Speakers (specifically the spider and surround) "break in" within a matter of seconds or minutes, and the change is measurable, but not necessarily perceptible.



I'm in the camp of it taking X hours for a person to acclimate to the new sound and/or convince him/herself the money was not wasted.

This is why I mentioned ferrofluid in tweeters a few posts back. Providing that the speakers are not damaged the only likely measurable change will be due to issues with the ferrofluid. You’ll often see ebay listings for speakers stating that a tweeter has blown. More likely the ferrofluid has become so viscous that it is effectively bonding the diaphragm assembly in place.

I wonder how many people have bought used speakers of several years age that have out of spec tweeters and how many people change otherwise perfectly good speakers when all that is needed is a change of the ferrofluid.

It usually takes time for the issue to develop but I wonder if short term any burning in that may cause prolonged heating of the tweeters can expedite the issue, but I imagine that it would have to be something fairly extreme.
 
Joined
May 30, 2020
Messages
49
Likes
77
21354B64-CFFE-47F4-B71B-E9ADAD7F31FF.jpeg


forgive the tv programme that was airing I had no idea until after I took the pic months ago

i had a pair of Magico Q5’s years ago . I remember they sounded like 2 speakers, a distinct left and right speaker . A few months later I noticed voices from the middle of the speakers.

I read later it was called the Phantom centre channel effect.

definitely sound improved after a few months . They were brand spanking new.
maybe it was placebo , I don’t know , but in those days I never new about phantom centre channel effect.
If this is “breaking in” I don’t know.someone later used the term to me
21354B64-CFFE-47F4-B71B-E9ADAD7F31FF.jpeg
 
Last edited:

snurf

Member
Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
37
Likes
7
....
(1)The Fahey example you give seems to be for bass guitar speakers, which by necessity have surrounds that are practically rigid compared to domestic audio units.
...
(2)Back in the day I worked in studios, and one time took the first shift in a rebuilt control room. Monitors were Tannoy Little Reds, pro units, but not very different from Tannoy's domestic lines. I heard them from minute one, and heard no change or "opening up" ever ... and even after approx 160,000 hours they were no different. ...

(1) So does that mean that they need to be broken-in?

(2) I believe that particular model needs 500,000 hours to 'open up' and 900,000 hours to really shine :)

Most speakers I've bought didn't need to be broken in. But, I've had a pair of speakers and a subwoofer model that needed just that. How to, is explained in one of the videos above. A few minutes at xmax and you're done.
 
Last edited:

LTig

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
5,760
Likes
9,442
Location
Europe
View attachment 66249

[..]

i had a pair of Magico Q5’s years ago . I remember they sounded like 2 speakers, a distinct left and right speaker . A few months later I noticed voices from the middle of the speakers.

I read later it was called the Phantom centre channel effect.

definitely sound improved after a few months . They were brand spanking new.
maybe it was placebo , I don’t know , but in those days I never new about phantom centre channel effect.
If this is “breaking in” I don’t know.someone later used the term to me
View attachment 66249
I must say I'm quite shocked that such an expensive system (all Burmester?) is not able to throw a proper 2D stage (when new). A $9 Apple dongle and a pair of JBL 305 for $200+ is able to do this when properly setup. You may also have a problem with your room.
 

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,298
Location
uk, taunton
View attachment 66249

forgive the tv programme that was airing I had no idea until after I took the pic months ago

i had a pair of Magico Q5’s years ago . I remember they sounded like 2 speakers, a distinct left and right speaker . A few months later I noticed voices from the middle of the speakers.

I read later it was called the Phantom centre channel effect.

definitely sound improved after a few months . They were brand spanking new.
maybe it was placebo , I don’t know , but in those days I never new about phantom centre channel effect.
If this is “breaking in” I don’t know.someone later used the term to me
View attachment 66249
That's quite bizarre to me , as if they were wired up out of phase.
 

LTig

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
5,760
Likes
9,442
Location
Europe
That's quite bizarre to me , as if they were wired up out of phase.
That's possible. I witnessed this on a demo of the Avantgarde Acoustic Trio in the 90's. Neither of the audiophile listeners nor the rep complained, but I did (sat in the sweet spot) and I was right (one of the drivers was wired in reverse).
 
Top Bottom