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Do any Speakers emulate the 90s Acoustic Research 'Holographic' Upward Tilted Woofer but Horizontal Tweeter?

Jake Cushing

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Does anyone recall the Acoustic Research 'holographic imaging' series of loudspeakers? I have two pairs of the M1s (the smallest in the series and the most highly rated) - and they remain stellar performers. The size of the stage, the placement of instruments and spaciousness of the sound still competes today with any speaker, on any budget. And the bass these small units put out when placed near a wall is still astounding. The midranges are not quite as detailed as better speakers so they are not perfect, of course. But those 'better speakers' are not that common and usually expensive.

These were genuine acoustic suspension speakers.

Give them a google and you'll read about how Mark Levinson went nuts hearing the prototype at AR and hosted a two day press conference powering them with his hyper-expensive amps.

But if that principle of an upwards tilted mid/bass driver and a 'normal' horizontally directed tweeter worked such wonders with these speakers, I'm wondering why I don't see that configuration repeated elsewhere...

AR.jpg
 
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Andreas007

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Someone in the US should buy and send them to Amir. New interesting task for the Klippel. ;)

 

Calleberg

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Was not aware of the AR's but this is something a lot more modern, Inspired by the OrthoAcoustc speakers of the 70 & 80:ies. Supposedly amazing speakers, I have not heard them though.
 
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Jake Cushing

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Someone in the US should buy and send them to Amir. New interesting task for the Klippel. ;)

Double-Like!!
 

DSJR

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Taking it one step further, the vintage Allison 6 put the bass-mid driver on to of a cubic box to seriously 'drive' a room into some kind of submission, the sonic result being a kind of 'etherial' presentation that you either can't live with, or can't live without (a real 'Marmite' presentation).

I may have the entire concept wrong here, but what about Shahinian? We had one of the smaller floor models (Compass mk1) but to get a fairly natural balance at the listening position, the upper mids were set very 'hot' if you got too close I remember. Daft money in the UK now (£5k) and for that, I'd want a pukka active monitor these days... UK subjective speaker firm Neat have something with angled baffles too, a kind of throw back to the Naim SBL and Snell A with angled baffles.


Apologies if the above is too much thread drift.
 

Calleberg

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It may look like a lifestyle design product, but it is not, even though wife acceptance is probably off the charts!
The history behind this thing is guite intriguing, Mark Levinsson pops up here too...
 

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Calleberg

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The OrthoAcoustic heritage: The Carlsson OA 52.2 from 1996
 

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Jake Cushing

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If anybody in the US can locate a pair in good condition, I will pay for the purchase and the mailing to Amir (if he was interested). And the return - ie you get to keep the speakers. I'm that fascinated by how they measure today.

The only proviso is that Amir would need to listen to a pair, because their imaging is the whole point of the exercise.
 

BDWoody

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If anybody in the US can locate a pair in good condition, I will pay for the purchase and the mailing to Amir (if he was interested). And the return - ie you get to keep the speakers. I'm that fascinated by how they measure today.

The only proviso is that Amir would need to listen to a pair, because their imaging is the whole point of the exercise.

Should we get Amir to bid?

 
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Jake Cushing

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Yes! though the seller has not shown the driver on the second unit. It may be damaged. I'll send the seller a query.
 

Rick Sykora

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The tweeter location is even more unusual on the ARs, but many Vandersteen speakers have tilted woofers...

Model%201Ci%20small.jpg


I have several pairs of Mirage speakers that tilt them too...

R.db1de39c0ddc58d8a5b6d5d6a503c1cc
 
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Piranesi

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Such speakers still exist in the form of Siegfried Linkwitz's Lxmini and previously Pluto speakers. To me they do produce a soundstage almost magical in its realism.

I'm guessing there's an advantage to basically omnidirectional output up to a frequency much higher than most speakers would produce.
Unfortunately I'm too much of a brainlet to really understand his explanation for it though.

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anmpr1

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Does anyone recall the Acoustic Research 'holographic imaging' series of loudspeakers? I have two pairs of the M1s... Give them a google and you'll read about how Mark Levinson went nuts hearing the prototype at AR and hosted a two day press conference powering them with his hyper-expensive amps.
I recall (I don't think I'm making this up) reading how Mark was going to work with AR to produce an 'audiophile' line of loudspeakers, but then there were denials, and nothing came of it. He did manufacture a 'version' of the AR LST loudspeaker, as a Cello product.

Mark was all over the place. More a salesman than anything. For more than most people spent on their automobile, he'd sell you two mono preamps--limited to a volume control and a two-input switch, telling customers that his minimalist approach 'sounded best'.

Then, his next product/company was an even more expensive preamp featuring an over the top tone control system, telling customers that what they really needed was the ability to 'fine tune' their recordings with half a dozen knobs and switches.

Next, he went 'affordable', importing rebranded tube and SS amps from China.

I guess there's some humor in all of it.
 

sully45

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In Jeff Bagby's Kairos, the whole baffle is slanted for phase and time allignment. I wonder how much that has to do with the imaging you folks seem to be hearing. Granted that means the woofer and tweeter are parallel which isn't quite what you guys are talking about.
 

audiopile

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When i had my own store (40 years ago) my two most expensive speakers were the Allison's and the Hegeman 1A. The Hegeman used a labyrinth bass loading- angled up 8" Phillips woofer magnet /basket equipped with a aluminum cone and a 0162T8 Phillips woofer mounted co-axially above the woofer (Stereophile /J.Gordon Holt ran a review on the Hegeman 1 ) . Stew Hegeman was pretty routinly about 30years ahead of the pack on most audio matters. The Linkweitz LX-mini is pretty spectacular -but you must use either the Linkweitz designed crossover/program or the Pass designed analog crossover with the speaker. What all three of these designs have in common is designing for use in a listening room/living room environment. Back in the day- burying a speaker in loose earth up to it's baffle in a quiet (?) field out in the country somewhere and then moving measurement mics around it while you pumped test tones thru it was the state of speaker measurement art. FFT was a revolution. But in the end- the user's room is still the challenge and you really have to respect the experience and talent that guys like Roy Allison and Stew Hegeman brought to the art of speaker design. And Siegfried Linkweitz took decades of testing and experience to create real world designs that may look "weird" - but work better than anything else I've heard in the last 50+ years. (Hmm-gotta see if Scott's still got two pairs of Hegeman 1A's stored in his basement ? Might be deal time.)
 

scott.munoz.2007

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The Allison one's were mentioned, are very much cousins of the ar-9, and I put a big *** here, *** if properly restored with original drivers that has e been rebuilt by those who know how, not many...

*** the ar-9 would beat 95% of any modern speaker costing less than 5k in a double blind test. I'm very confident of that. Many new England AS speakers would. The acoustic suspension system Vilchur invented and Kloss helped design and build in the mid 50's ar-1, perfecting it further in '57 with the ar-3- brought bass below 80 ha into average homes for the very first time. They started the "golden agecofvthevkoydsoeaker, why btw, was over by '81 and the Ar-9, primarily.

Because of their inefficiency, ( AS designs and drivers) ironic they specufically are the impetus for the wattage ways of early SS amps. My Kenny kr-9400 was the highest wattage amp/receiver on the market on 71 when released. That lasted 3 months. Inefficiency of a driver is overrated, by definition, AS woofers, with sloppy loose suspension, are not giving you 94db spec....

However, 200wpc +amps/recievers have been affordable since the mid 70's. Right now, a Crown xli 1500 at 450 wpc into 8 ohms is barely $450 new. Insane.

Today, no company of any size makes AS drivers, let alone loudspeakers.

The last two sets of any import, both designed by the third greatest speaker designer and former AR designer and MIT grad at 18 and pretty funny I genius, designer of the AR MGC "magic speaker " a decade earlier and greatest designer with us still and working, Ken Kantor, ( Vilchur and Kloss are 1 and and 2, Roy Allison, well ok, tied for 3( with the 1994 Nht 3.3 and the 1995 ar-303a and series ( 8 speakers, a center and sub. It has made the best atmos audio setup I've designed and installed....out if 30 or so installs specifically for atmos audio. Not HT.). Name a innovation since vilchir and AS since the 50s, and one of those four likely invented it.

The fact that an average consumer younger than 45 equates AS as having diminished low end extension and for lack of better word, slow bass and transients, have been deluded. " New has to be better" and new has been ported for 25 years primarily. I restore vintage gear, AR and all related easy coast companies. A properly restored AR-11 for example...1972 I believe...or literally any 10 or 12" three way....has the tightest, quickest absolutely best replication of low eve and overall replication of live music made today or any day. They are flatter than any west coast or modern design not costing 5k plus, and at 5k a sub in needed to get into the 20s. The -3db point of an ar-9...28hz.

In contrast, the jbl l100 ( owned, hated, restored, sold for enough to buy a set of LST's and ar-9's, with a nice amount left.)

The century is the most popular vintage set. Period. But it's the least flat, it is inconsistent across the frequency band as you can get and has a low end spec of only 42 hz with a 12" woofer and ported, an xo of 2 caps and 2 pots, that's it for a three way?! ( no AR 12" set pre 1985, is worse than 38hz, the ar-9lsi../28hz. By the way the non- bass it does have, again sounds like an old man farting. It's poplar to plug the port, I wonder why?

Most ar 8" models go lower. And all AS systems make ported bass sound boomy, bloated, kinda fart-ish. But much cheaper to make- as a port is nothing more that an artificial replacement for cabinet volume. Smaller, cheaper cabs including high end are simply cost efficient, I.e. more orofitable. The ubiquitous modern 3.5' tall, black 8" wide tower with 76 5" drivers ( joke):and go down to 50hz, if your lucky and the room allows, still needing a sub, have been the standard for 20 years. I haven't had a need for a sub other than for HT, and complementing the great 8" vintage 2 ways like epi 100, dynamo a25, klh 22, ar-4x. And never ever listen use a sub for music other than in stereo, ( two subs). 2 channel stereo- if a three way and a 12" woofer goes lower than most 10" modern subs.

The big reveal!!!!

I'm no older boomer- cranky about that loud hippity hop, ( in a very big hip hip fan...rick n roll, how ever it comes, is my passion, however.)..... and will tell anyone you might be near about how much better it was "in my day".

I just turned 41, and I've restored / repaired vintage and contemporary audio equipment full time for myself successfully for 13 years. I was born the year the single best loudspeaker, of all concerns, the ar-9, was released.

I'm very happy to listen to those long timers tell me how much better it was in their day. They were right all along!

Scottie
 
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anmpr1

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However, 200wpc +amps/recievers have been affordable since the mid 70's. Right now, a Crown xli 1500 at 450 wpc into 8 ohms is barely $450 new. Insane.
I guess it depends on 'affordable'. But probably not. Really cheap watts didn't happen until much later. Certainly nothing in the $500.00 range was available in the mid '70s, which would have been about $175.00, adjusted. For that you could get a 15 to 20 watt per channel receiver, or possibly a 30 to 35 watt per channel integrated amp. For most 'popular' Japanese gear you could expect a ten to fifteen percent discount, so factor that in to the 'list' price.

200 watt/ch amplifiers/receivers from 1977 (inflato adjusted in parenthesis):

Cerwin Vega 1800, 225 watts, $800.00 ($3740.00)

Crown DC300, 150 watts, $850.00 ($3980.00)

Dyna 400, 200 watts, $500.00 ($2340.00) build it yourself kit

GAS Ampzilla II, 200 watts, $899.00 (($4208.00)

Heath AA-1640, 200 watts, $450.00 ($2106) build it yourself kit

Hitachi 8300, 200 watts, $750.00 ($3511.00)

Lux M4000, 180 watts, $1500.00 ($7022.00)

McIntosh MC2205, 200 watts, $1200.00 ($5618.00)

Nikko Alpha, 220 watts, $600.00 ($2809.00)

Phase Linear 400, 200 watts, $550.00 ($2574.00)

Pioneer Spec 2, 250 watts, $900.00 ($4213.00)

SAE 2400, 200 watts, $800.00 ($3750.00)

Sansui AU 20000, 170 watts, $1000.00 ($4618.00) Integrated amplifier

Stax DA300, 150 watts, $3890.00 ($18,212.00) Class A

Recievers

Hitachi 2004, 200 watts, $950.00 ($4448.00)

Marantz 2385, 185 watts, $1095.00 ($5126.00)

Pioneer SX-1250, 160 watts, $900.00 ($4213.00)
 
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