do any dirac receivers or processors get recommended reviews?

[DF!]

I am very new to this forum (actually found it last night)! I want to upgrade my theatre room and was initially thinking to transition to a dirac based receiver or a dirac receiver / processor with a separates amp. Just scanning the reviews and it appears to me that no dirac receivers or processors get a recommended review from Amirm - seems like only the Denon get favourable reviews which I believe are non dirac. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something as I don't want to spend hundreds of hours researching this.

My current setup is a NAD 787 (bought it on blowout sale). I could add a DIRAC update card to it but concerned it doesn't have enough power. Also, I think my predecessor system to that was a better setup sonically - Cary Cinema 12 and 7.125 AMP but they became discontinued and no dealers where I live.

As I side note, I have a 2 channel room for music so the use of this room is home theatre exclusively and would not be used for music listening. My current set up is 5.1 and possibly would add some ceiling speakers someday so this would then be a 5.1.2 setup.

Please advise ?

Thank you

 

[peng]

I am very new to this forum (actually found it last night)! I want to upgrade my theatre room and was initially thinking to transition to a dirac based receiver or a dirac receiver / processor with a separates amp. Just scanning the reviews and it appears to me that no dirac receivers or processors get a recommended review from Amirm - seems like only the Denon get favourable reviews which I believe are non dirac. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something as I don't want to spend hundreds of hours researching this.

My current setup is a NAD 787 (bought it on blowout sale). I could add a DIRAC update card to it but concerned it doesn't have enough power. Also, I think my predecessor system to that was a better setup sonically - Cary Cinema 12 and 7.125 AMP but they became discontinued and no dealers where I live.

As I side note, I have a 2 channel room for music so the use of this room is home theatre exclusively and would not be used for music listening. My current set up is 5.1 and possibly would add some ceiling speakers someday so this would then be a 5.1.2 setup.

Please advise ?

Thank you

I am quite sure I have read every AVR/AVP reviews on ASR and I also don't remember any Dirac equipped one got his recommendation. The NAD M17 might have come close. So if Dirac is a must for you, you may have to settle for the ones that did not measure best.

If you plan on applying EQ to above the room transition frequencies, Dirac supposedly could do a better job but that's probably not a sure thing. Otherwise, I would say Audyssey is just as good if used with the Editor App. I have seen no evidence Dirac would make much of an improvement to the 20 to 100, or even 200 Hz range.

 

[DF!]

Thank you. If I take Dirac off the list then what else would be recommended for a processor unit as I am running focal electra's that need lots of power to make them work? Or again, just purchase a Denon AV to use as processor ? The NAD M17 was on my list as well as the Arcam 850 however I believe these receivers are expensive new and have horrible resale values.

 

[peng]

Thank you. If I take Dirac off the list then what else would be recommended for a processor unit as I am running focal electra's that need lots of power to make them work? Or again, just purchase a Denon AV to use as processor ? The NAD M17 was on my list as well as the Arcam 850 however I believe these receivers are expensive new and have horrible resale values.

I would just grab the AVR-X4700H, or X6700H if you can negotiate a good discount and believe in the potential benefits of being "make in Japan".

Facts and measurements don't lie. ASR's measurements, every time I checked, seemed consistent with Stereophile, Hometheaterhifi and AH's and Amir recommended the Denons not because of their good look, but because they measured better on his bench.

Some experts may like to highlight the point that THD+N does not corelate to sound quality well. While I believe that true as a general statement, I believe it is also true that an amp that measures better in virtually all categories including not just THD+N but also IMD, linearity and cleaning looking FFTs, would likely "sound better", at least under certain conditions.

I like what the author said, in the article linked below (I am linking it as preamble, anticipating some will say, don't pay too much attention to those measurements...":

Intermodulation Distortion (sound-au.com)

"....Despite all the claims that harmonic distortion measurements are 'pointless', they are nothing of the sort. Low THD means high linearity through the circuit, and if a circuit is sufficiently linear it's unlikely to generate serious IMD. There are factors that can change this, as linearity can deteriorate at higher frequencies (which may not be measured for THD). In general, if you get a good THD figure at 1kHz and low IMD with an SMPTE and/or ITU-R test, then it's time to listen critically to ensure that the measurements and what you hear are in agreement. Few amplifiers will disappoint if they provide good test results. ..."

 

[peng]

I am running focal electra's that need lots of power to make them work?

I have driven my 1028 Be with just an AVR just for trial, it worked just as good as the 4B SST I had at the time. I even tried it once or twice with my 5 W DIY class A amp and it sounded okay too at reasonably low vol. So I guess you must have the 1038 be and sit further away than I and you listen louder? (about 9 ft, 70 dB for me). For AVP, measurements aside, I would rather go with the replacement for the AV8805. I bet it would measure much better, based on the bench test results of the SR8015. AVR/AVPs, in my opinion, are too complicated for small boutique style brands such as Arcam and NAD. For the much simpler tried and true integrated amps and power amps, those (the likes of NADs) will be great.

 

[DF!]

I have the 1028 Be 2 as my R and L fronts and 1008 the Be 2 central channel. Any thoughts on the yamaha processor / av receivers as someone also recommended that or stick with the Denon / Marantz?

 

[Timme]

I am quite sure I have read every AVR/AVP reviews on ASR and I also don't remember any Dirac equipped one got his recommendation. The NAD M17 might have come close. So if Dirac is a must for you, you may have to settle for the ones that did not measure best.

If you plan on applying EQ to above the room transition frequencies, Dirac supposedly could do a better job but that's probably not a sure thing. Otherwise, I would say Audyssey is just as good if used with the Editor App. I have seen no evidence Dirac would make much of an improvement to the 20 to 100, or even 200 Hz range.

It is a huge improvement with Dirac over Audyssey. You simply need to hear yourself to believe

I was amazed by how big the difference was. It
Was not subtle that I thought it would be. Pls, try and get a good Dirac Demo! It
Really is something special

 

[Timme]

I have the 1028 Be 2 as my R and L fronts and 1008 the Be 2 central channel. Any thoughts on the yamaha processor / av receivers as someone also recommended that or stick with the Denon / Marantz?

I can now recommend Arcam AVR20
It really is very good now after a few firmware updates. Read up on it and then make your decision! For me, marantz never even came close to the performance of the Arcam

 

[peng]

It is a huge improvement with Dirac over Audyssey. You simply need to hear yourself to believe

I was amazed by how big the difference was. It
Was not subtle that I thought it would be. Pls, try and get a good Dirac Demo! It
Really is something special

Been there done that already! Took a lot of measurements with REW too. Obviously you have better luck than me on that.

 

[SIY]

Put things in perspective: it is seriously doubtful that you'll hear the difference between 90 and 115dB SINAD. Nor is it likely you'll hear the difference between an amp with 0.01% and 0.0001% distortion.

Dirac, now that's something that will make a very large and very audible difference.

 

[Timme]

Been there done that already! Took a lot of measurements with REW too. Obviously you have better luck than me on that.

Ah you did? I wonder why it didn’t work for you
The biggest difference is with bass, music and dialogue for me. The mids and bass are vastly improved

 

[markus]

I am very new to this forum (actually found it last night)! I want to upgrade my theatre room and was initially thinking to transition to a dirac based receiver or a dirac receiver / processor with a separates amp. Just scanning the reviews and it appears to me that no dirac receivers or processors get a recommended review from Amirm - seems like only the Denon get favourable reviews which I believe are non dirac. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something as I don't want to spend hundreds of hours researching this.

My current setup is a NAD 787 (bought it on blowout sale). I could add a DIRAC update card to it but concerned it doesn't have enough power. Also, I think my predecessor system to that was a better setup sonically - Cary Cinema 12 and 7.125 AMP but they became discontinued and no dealers where I live.

As I side note, I have a 2 channel room for music so the use of this room is home theatre exclusively and would not be used for music listening. My current set up is 5.1 and possibly would add some ceiling speakers someday so this would then be a 5.1.2 setup.

Please advise ?

Thank you

Amir's SINAD measurements don't correspond well with what is heard but they are highly useful for finding matching amps (input sensitivity of an amp should be the same as the output voltage where SINAD is best).

If you want to play around with Dirac Live then either upgrade your 787 with an AM230 card or get a cheap 758v3. Unfortunately Amir didn't measure SINAD over level at that time so we don't know what the optimal output level for the 758 is. Amir's data suggests that it's somewhere below -6dB master volume though.

 

[peng]

Ah you did? I wonder why it didn’t work for you
The biggest difference is with bass, music and dialogue for me. The mids and bass are vastly improved

To be clear, it wasn't that it didn't work for me. In fact, they both worked quite well. Each would do better in some ways, and overall I would call it even/equal. The differences were very visible on paper but I wouldn't think the differences were significant enough to be noticeable by the ears. According to the graphs, without either in effect, they looked pretty bad in the bass, but with either Aud/Dirac, they looked great in terms of flatness, decays, impulse response, waterfall, listening windows etc.etc… Going by ears, I could not say one was better than the other, and I really tried.. If I could hear the difference/better using Dirac, I would not hesitate to spend the money.

 

[peng]

Amir's SINAD measurements don't correspond well with what is heard but they are highly useful for finding matching amps (input sensitivity of an amp should be the same as the output voltage where SINAD is best).

Great point, but I think you have to look at the whole curve SINAD vs the pre out voltage, not just one point where SINAD is best. I wish he had included the curves for every unit measured though, because in my opinion it is better to look at the curve than the point where SINAD was best. You can see that one may have 97 dB SINAD at 1 V, but if you look at the range between say 0.2 V to 1 V, another unit with only 95 dB SINAD at the same 1 V point may have higher SINAD everywhere except at 1 V, (just for argument sake). With the whole curve it would be easier to pick an amp.

The good thing is, Amir seems to have included that graph now in his standard battery of tests/measurements.

 

[DF!]

I guess I can say I still continue to be unsure as what to direction to head and hence why I have did nothing for a few years while I research. I am likely not as technical as most of the people that have responded so far.

Here is what I do know: my speakers (Focal Electra) I run need lot of power to make them shine properly more so than any av receiver can prove so I guess need to separate amps to power R & L and centre or it as least be prepared to add some separate amplification later. Also, I believe a set with fewer high quality speakers is better than the complicated set up with low end speakers - hence why many would be better served with 2 channel set up (ie 2 quality speakers and quality amplification) and why I still do have a 2 channel listening setup separate from my theatre room.

One dealer / owner that have a lot of respect for over the years likes Atmos / Dirac (he never pushed home theatre until this) recommends it and I do believe its the future. I have a hard time believing the companies such as NAD or Arcam can't build something good however I do completely respect and "get" Peng's points as the difference work on paper but are harder to hear audibly and I didnt study any of Amir reviews to understand if they were close to getting a positive review ie just missed the cut off of being recommeded. I would assume Peng has set up his listening areas with great attention and it can be done as I had my theatre room sounding really good at one point.

I do get the fact that most of the online reviewers publications also get advertising $ to make they there business models work so writing negative reviews does not advertising $ for them or equipment sales for the companies that buy advertising.

I have given up on smaller companies such as Cary Audio (worst customer support ever) and prefer larger name stuff as NAD as I was an early adopter of their class d stuff in 2013. It seems less problems with their stuff and if there is problems companies can typically help you with technical support numbers. Also with NAD, I like the fact that you can add cards so that you can actually get some life out their products with them being obsolete a year after you purchase them. Finally, with brands such as Focal, you benefit from the trickle down technology from their ultra high end product lines.

 

[Timme]

You really should go with a Dirac receiver

 

[DF!]

I guess that no dirac av receivers get a recommended review from Amirm. Do any processors get a recommended review from him yet?

 

[bunkbail]

I guess that no dirac av receivers get a recommended review from Amirm. Do any processors get a recommended review from him yet?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/nad-m33-streaming-amplifier-review.17302/

 

[DF!]

thanks - I was meaning in home theatre multichannel av receivers or mulitchannel processors but thanks. I guess if NAD can get this right then there is hope for next gen units of the T778.

 

[yourmando]

I guess that no dirac av receivers get a recommended review from Amirm. Do any processors get a recommended review from him yet?

Check out the Monoprice Monolith HTP-1. It’s considered by many to be one of pre pros in its price range with Dirac.

You might consider the reasons why Amir recommend a unit might not be reasons that matter to you. For example, the HTP-1 measures well, but got dinged because it’s output voltage could be higher to support a wider variety of low gain devices. In practice, this doesn’t matter for most consumer amplifiers and there is no performance penalty.

Amir also doesn’t look much at features & functionality, whether the units have long standing bugs, etc. There are other sites that review that stuff. This site focuses more on key measurements, and it works especially well for single purpose devices like DACs and amps. When choosing an AVR with many features, there could a million other issues that could be make or break for that product.