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Do aluminium Genelecs have a particular "house sound"...

abdo123

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Even so, recording loudspeakers is not an easy task because you need a lot of experience how to do it.

1. The microphones used may differ more than +-10 dB 20-20000 Hz. This gonna colour the sound and its very audible. Are your microphones of a very high quality and do they have a frequency response +-1 dB in the audible area ?

2. The microphones should be nearer the loudspeaker than the critical distance in the room - ie less than 1 metre. And yes - you can only record one loudspeaker , because otherwise you gonna have comb effects. In this youtube video - the recording is done in the wrong way and are therefore of no value at all. Its wortheless.

3. Putting the microphones at listening position gives very false results - what you really are recording is only the room response - not the loudspeakers direct sound because you are way outside of the critical distance. This gives results of no value. A lot of recording amateurs dont know anything about this.
After 5 ms soundtravel and more, ( 1,7 metres distance and longer ) the ear/brain starts to select sounds and the mic take up all sound. You cant trust measurements in this case because of the precedence effect. The mic and brain are VERY different.

Read more about critical distance here :

I’m not saying it’s a perfect system, just better than most crap out there.

Btw typical domestic rooms don’t have a reveberant field or a critical distance in the academic sense. They’re too small to form a reverb field.

Sure the response will always be better closer to the speaker but there will never be a portion of the room where loudness is equal in that portion (beyond the critical distance).
 

Bamboszek

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Literally all Neumanns above the KH80 are aluminum, the KH80 isn't most likely due to cost cutting and that's it. Not that I think the polycarbonate cabinet is bad or anything. The cabinet material doesn't have anything to do with the sound.
Actually KH120 are only cast aluminium speakers from Neumann. KH80 is polycarbonate, KH310 and KH420 have polyurethane front panel and wooden cabinets, subs are wooden. Only back panels are aluminium.
 

Sancus

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Actually KH120 are only cast aluminium speakers from Neumann. KH80 is polycarbonate, KH310 and KH420 have polyurethane front panel and wooden cabinets, subs are wooden. Only back panels are aluminium.
You're right, forgot about that. Same deal though. If there was some kind of consistent material-based sound, Neumann wouldn't use a bunch of different ones. The material doesn't really matter(except to the designer/manufacturer).
 
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Digby

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Inert doesn’t make a speaker lean… but for that matter all of the genelecs are equalized to produce nearly flat on axis response. Any differences due to materials would come out after equalizing anyway. Which is also not to say they don’t have any difference at all.
Differences from resonance (port or cabinet) wouldn't be removed by EQing though, would it? You may reproduce the same curve, but the sound would still be different if a part of one speaker is ringing (resonance) and another is not, wouldn't it? The same could be said of differing off axis response, directivity and other factors. These things cannot be EQ'd out/in.

And that's why we invented measurements.
Right and I bet the measurements show a difference, if we know where to look. A flat EQ (±3db) could be mostly -3db from ideal or mostly +3db and still be considered flat. These are potential differences of 6db, yet it is still considered flat. These differences are not inaudible. This is just one factor of speaker reproduction.

I'm inviting forum members to use a little imagination, it doesn't always have to be a teeth pulling exercise (too many here seem to enjoy arguing about arguing, rather than arguing about whether there is any validity to what someone has noticed). Doesn't all science begin with an idea/feeling. Let's try and be inquisitive.
 
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dfuller

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I don't know, but my experience with the 2 way 80 series Genelecs is they sound all kinds of "too good". They're very tricky speakers to mix on compared to my Neumanns or *ducks and covers* the ATCs I've used. Things sound done before they are.
 

Frank Dernie

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I could only tell them apart once I uncovered my screen.
The difference is programme dependant but is most obvious, and sometimes very obvious to me, when the switch over takes place.
I didn't expect the difference to be as big as it was.
 

Pearljam5000

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Genelecs sound cleaner and clearer, Neumanns probably are more mids/bass heavy
 
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Digby

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I think "clean and clear" is a matter of taste. The Neumanns sound more natural to my taste with the Gens having a lack in mid bass (low bass seems about the same) an excess to the highs and a certain diffuse quality to the soundfield.

BTW, is anyone else noticing a difference in the apparent reverb of the two speakers? Music seems to start and stop faster with the Neumann, while the airy quality of the Genelec sounds as if it has a longer reverb/decay time (as though recorded in a livelier room). Check the vocals of the Jazzy track starting 2:30 for a good example of what I mean.
 

Rednaxela

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The Genelec is definitely taut or lean in the bass by comparison and with a slight forward perception to the tweeter, combined with a certain airy quality that is not present with the Neumann (which sounds a little more...boxy?). This is something that I, personally, found grating at volume - it was too much and made music sound fatiguing.
Were you not able to fix this with EQ?
 

NiagaraPete

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Do aluminium Genelecs have a particular "house sound"...​

In my opinion, no. I would say the best thing about Genelec's is they don't have a sound.
 

Waxx

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First, i don't think you can judge a speaker in a youtube video, to many other variables are into play.

But i know both brands well, and i know both sound very neutral and low distortion with controlled dispertion. The real difference for me (outside the look) is that the Genelec gives me ear fatigue after a few hours, while Neumann doesn't. Why that is i don't know yet, but i would love to know that. My guess is that it has something to do with or directivity (altough it's also similar) or with the electronics, mostly the Genelec dsp that does something that hurts my ears. Newer models are much better than the older ones, but it's still there. But i got no proof for it, it's just a thought from trying to analyse the difference between the speakers.

But for short time listening, both are on the same level. I use a 8030C weekly in a radio studio where i broadcast, and for that 1h30 that i'm in the studio, the ear fatigue is not there. It's only after 3-4h of listening that it becomes an issue. And that 8030C, with the port on the back, can give good bass, even real deep bass if you use it on a short distance of a wall, so the speaker uses the wall to give more bass. That's how we do it in that radiostudio. You need to fiddle a bit to find the right distance, but when set it gives more bass than you would think it can do.
 

NiagaraPete

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OK, but please listen to the second youtube link of light classical type music. There is obviously a marked difference in reproduction between the two speakers, yet they are both considered quite accurate speakers. I think it will best illustrate my point.
You can’t possibly try to compare speakers from a YouTube video. It’s not valid.
 
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Digby

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Were you not able to fix this with EQ?
I didn't really try. I'm in a position where I need to listen to music sans subwoofers, so because the 8030c was rather limited in bass response below about 60hz, I discounted it for my use.

In my opinion, no. I would say the best thing about Genelec's is they don't have a sound.
I reckon every speaker has a sound, Genelec are no different in this regard.

You can’t possibly try to compare speakers from a YouTube video. It’s not valid.
Normally, I'd agree, but check the video for yourself. The speakers are level matched and every effort has been made to give an accurate representation of their sound. What I hear in the video (from the Genelecs) in similar in character to what I heard in my own room. There is a not insignificant degree of translation.
 

KSTR

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But i know both brands well, and i know both sound very neutral and low distortion with controlled dispertion. The real difference for me (outside the look) is that the Genelec gives me ear fatigue after a few hours, while Neumann doesn't. Why that is i don't know yet, but i would love to know that. My guess is that it has something to do with or directivity (altough it's also similar) or with the electronics, mostly the Genelec dsp that does something that hurts my ears. Newer models are much better than the older ones, but it's still there. But i got no proof for it, it's just a thought from trying to analyse the difference between the speakers.
When the 80xx series got introduced I had a chance to listen to several models side by side and they all sounded quite similar (a good thing) but distinctly different than others, definitely on the "crisp" side of things, probably prone to give ear fatigue earlier than others, say, Geithains which have a reputation for being very listenable for extended duration.

I think this cannot easily be nailed down to some specific properties isolated as every detail of an actual implementation will count, to varying degrees. As does, of course, the acoustic properties of the listening environment.

For this I'm in the camp of those who say specs and measurements of speakers are important and welcomed but it is close to impossible to predict if you will actually like the sound or not, especially in the long term.
 

NiagaraPete

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Normally, I'd agree, but check the video for yourself. The speakers are level matched and every effort has been made to give an accurate representation of their sound. What I hear in the video (from the Genelecs) in similar in character to what I heard in my own room. There is a not insignificant degree of translation.
I just think it’s delusional to think of using a second rate source to compare transducers.
 
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