thedeaftones
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So there is an audible difference between dacs if you are young. So dacs do sound different. That's all a needed to know. Thanks for the info.
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DO ALL DACS SOUND THE SAME??
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CuriousAli
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Please read a bit on NOS and you will see why, that's not a matter of DACs having unique sound signatures, NOS without proper filter is more or less a broken sound, but our ears may make up for it and the HF rolloff (which is a side effect of it) is a bad thing but only young people can hear such high frequencies in the first place.
Westsounds
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You might have felt these two chips sound the same, but on an emotional performance level, how did they 'really' make you feel? 
I think you understand I am actually joking with you, Keith, of course. Or am I
DAC’s can emotionally get to you like that 
I think you understand I am actually joking with you, Keith, of course. Or am I
DAC’s can emotionally get to you like that 
Dacs can sound different if one of the designs is adding audible distortion, properly engineered components will sound identical.
Keith
A DAC chip is not the only thing in a system, and furthermore that part will be never hearable in a well designed system these days. You can eff up the A in DAC design, though.
Check the features you want and the analog output performance rather than the silly latest and newest chip obsession.
Check the features you want and the analog output performance rather than the silly latest and newest chip obsession.
I got an SMSL DO 300 on Summer 2023, which features the then top of the line Sabre D/A IC and thought It sounded very detailed, I found It cold, analytical and "non musical". It invited me, if I had the same album on High Rez and LP record, to change source to my turntable.
I kept It until Summer 2024 when I got a refund from Amazon Spain, a year after its purchase, and got from them the SMSL D400 PRO that features the latest AKM chipset, the AK4191 (It does oversampling and Delta Sigma modulation) plus the AK4499EX (It does the actual D/A convertion.
I had both at the same time on my stereo set up (Marantz PM 6007 integrated amp, inexpensive but good sounding to my ears, plus KEF's Q550 speakers, the cheapest floor standing speakers on the KEF catalogue), as I received the SMSL D 400 PRO 2 or 3 days after I got the refund from Amazon, and I had two weeks to return the DO 300.
I know that the D 400 PRO is a bit more expensive than the DO 300, but they sound quite different to me. The sound of the D 400 PRO sounds very detailed, much like the DO 300, but I find its sound smooth and "musical", It invites me to listen to music with It, unlike the Sabre based DO 300. And yes, I level matched both of them using test tones and an sound level pressure meter.
I've had a Sabre based DAC before, the Topping D50 and I was never Happy with the sound of It, and yes, I know it's an inexpensive DAC.
Sabré based DAC are very revealing, its specs (dinamic range, noise level) are text book like, but they seem to have, at least to my years, a kind of "glassy" and agressive edge that I don't like.
The AKM based D 400 PRO sounds outstanding to me, and for the price, sound and built quality (yes, the D 400 PRO has a robust and nice looking case for my taste) that make It a bargain.
But I Guess as with many things, it's a Matter of taste.
And I also appreciate from the D 400 PRO the "DSD non processed" option.
I kept It until Summer 2024 when I got a refund from Amazon Spain, a year after its purchase, and got from them the SMSL D400 PRO that features the latest AKM chipset, the AK4191 (It does oversampling and Delta Sigma modulation) plus the AK4499EX (It does the actual D/A convertion.
I had both at the same time on my stereo set up (Marantz PM 6007 integrated amp, inexpensive but good sounding to my ears, plus KEF's Q550 speakers, the cheapest floor standing speakers on the KEF catalogue), as I received the SMSL D 400 PRO 2 or 3 days after I got the refund from Amazon, and I had two weeks to return the DO 300.
I know that the D 400 PRO is a bit more expensive than the DO 300, but they sound quite different to me. The sound of the D 400 PRO sounds very detailed, much like the DO 300, but I find its sound smooth and "musical", It invites me to listen to music with It, unlike the Sabre based DO 300. And yes, I level matched both of them using test tones and an sound level pressure meter.
I've had a Sabre based DAC before, the Topping D50 and I was never Happy with the sound of It, and yes, I know it's an inexpensive DAC.
Sabré based DAC are very revealing, its specs (dinamic range, noise level) are text book like, but they seem to have, at least to my years, a kind of "glassy" and agressive edge that I don't like.
The AKM based D 400 PRO sounds outstanding to me, and for the price, sound and built quality (yes, the D 400 PRO has a robust and nice looking case for my taste) that make It a bargain.
But I Guess as with many things, it's a Matter of taste.
And I also appreciate from the D 400 PRO the "DSD non processed" option.
JSmith
Master Contributor
You may be right, but what is true IS that I didn't quite lked the Sabre based DAC's I've i, I looked for a change, a DAC I was happy with its sound, I got the D 400 PRO and I do love its sound.
JSmith
Master Contributor
SMSL DO300 DAC Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the SMSL DO300 balanced stereo USB DAC with Bluetooth. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $549 although I see it on sale for $490. The DO300 naturally follows the design language of other recent SMSL products. I like the colorful display...
www.audiosciencereview.com
SMSL D400 Pro Balanced DAC Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the SMSL D400 Pro balanced stereo DAC with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $619. The scalloped front together with the high resolution and bright display make this one of the most beautiful products SMSL has...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Both DAC's are absolutely and completely transparent. It's not feasible to compare DAC's sighted and not level matched... the louder will sound better for one.
JSmith
I wouldn’t expect a noticeable difference between those DACs but the only way to know for sure that DACs sound different or the same or preferable for different individuals in a particular system is blind testing which is limited.
Svend P
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Everything a DAC does can be measured. If they measure better than human hearing, they will not sound different.
The only pertinent question is how much distortion does a component have to add before it becomes audible and thus ‘different’.
Keith
Keith
Extensive independent blind testing research is the only way to further the debate to see if there really are any subtle differences at the margins or not.
Even then there might possibly still be some personal individual preferences for different interpolation filters or harmonics at the margins. But even if there are really any subtle differences I suspect they would only be apparent with very transparent transfucers in ideal listening conditions so still irrelevant for most people in most situations.
Even Einstein had his theories tested and even he was wrong about some things and even his theories don’t hold in all circumstances so there isn’t always absolutes in this world especially when it comes to interactions with subjective humans with different attributes and personal preferences.
Even then there might possibly still be some personal individual preferences for different interpolation filters or harmonics at the margins. But even if there are really any subtle differences I suspect they would only be apparent with very transparent transfucers in ideal listening conditions so still irrelevant for most people in most situations.
Even Einstein had his theories tested and even he was wrong about some things and even his theories don’t hold in all circumstances so there isn’t always absolutes in this world especially when it comes to interactions with subjective humans with different attributes and personal preferences.
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As I have mentioned many times the only way for the individual to be truly convinced is to make the comparison for themselves.
The psychology is really interesting once someone has invested in an idea.
Keith
The psychology is really interesting once someone has invested in an idea.
Keith
The filters that are audible are wrong IMHO the selectable filters built in the some chips are a marketing gimick for the DAC builders who then can offer a useless ”feuture” thier customers can fiddle with
kudos to the DAC designers that make an engineering choice and just stick the filter to one of the proper settings.About those listenings test . It wont help ? If it would it would have been settled 40 years ago
Fully agree. I’m all for blind testing and find the results interesting. Ultimately it is a consumer product and ideally it is for the individual consumer to listen blindly volume matched if possible to decide if they can hear a difference or have a preference and if it is worth it. The individual is listening and paying so ultimately they should decide for themselves.
With a ADC the difference can be measured. Would be interesting to se the difference signal. Is it always at, lets say , -100dBr to one source only?
Se https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/akm-vs-ess.63774/post-2454159
But you're talking about measurement the likes of dinamic range, Signal to noise ratio and distortion, done with measuring equipment.
Sound is much more than dinamic range, Signal to noise ratio and distortion, and we have two ears, not measuring equipment.
Just my 0.02 $.
Sound is much more than dinamic range, Signal to noise ratio and distortion, and we have two ears, not measuring equipment.
Just my 0.02 $.
You are the perfect candidate for level matched unsighted comparison.
Keith
Anyone else miss our old 'dumping-ground thread,' where all these sense-less arguments were eventually moved? This kinda stuff now seems to pollute many threads here at ASR.... 
