Do all amplifiers sound the same? Level matched listening test

[jEDGEc0m]

There is a surprising amount of "difference" from the null test against the 2 sound clips. Seemed like enough that it could be audible. Will someone take and pass the test I wonder? (at this time, 1 poll of 10 says they can hear a difference - but I don't think we saw posted ABX results...)

As usual, what pleases me personally about such blind tests (and lossy codec ...) is that my ear-brain isn't that good, is pretty easily fooled, and this helps me accept that some things can fairly easily be "good enough", and just get on with enjoying the music (and maybe being disappointed with some aspects of the recordings).

...but I am likely to change/buy speakers. and always seek to have satisfying bass.

 

[Somafunk]

What on earth have amplifiers with orchestras in common??? Brain fart analogy...

He’s the forum pet troll, we allow him free reign through the threads every so often to stretch his legs

 

[pma]

There is a surprising amount of "difference" from the null test against the 2 sound clips.

Did you try Deltawave

DeltaWave Audio Null Comparator | DeltaWave documentation

deltaw.org

by our member @pkane ? It is an excellent and very sophisticated software to find possibly audible or inaudible differences. Remember that the null test result in isolation tells very little about possible audibility.

Attached is the Deltawave report.

 

[Adis]

Q: Is a Class D amplifier that has super ( but, inaudible) SINAD, and lasts 2 years better than... a Class A/B that measures good but not super good, and lasts 20?
Both at the same price point.

Apologies Pavel, I am way OT...
(And out.)

Better at what, amplifying signals?
Sure!

 

[Chr1]

Of course. But I would say that a "good" amplifier should last more than a couple years.

My point was that I think simple terms like good and bad can be subjective too.

 

[Adis]

It's not that Class D dies the day the warranty runs out.

 

[jEDGEc0m]

Did you try Deltawave

DeltaWave Audio Null Comparator | DeltaWave documentation

deltaw.org

by our member @pkane ? It is an excellent and very sophisticated software to find possibly audible or inaudible differences. Remember that the null test result in isolation tells very little about possible audibility.

Attached is the Deltawave report.

I did not. Interesting, though I will absolutely admit that I don't quite know what I'm looking at - but perhaps what I deduce is that there's less "difference" than the simple null test might have seemed to suggest. which I guess makes me feel better about not hearing the difference.

 

[pma]

The simple difference of samples is not a correct method, because it emphasizes phase differences between the samples that are mostly inaudible. Phase differences are a result of complex transfer function of amplifiers that are not identical.
Later, after some 2-3 weeks, I will post comparisons with the original file. The differences are similar as the differences between the amplifiers.

 

[anonyless]

are the sample clips taken originally from a vinyl recording?

 

[pma]

Anyone, efore asking similar questions, please read post #1. Time is precious.

 

[anonyless]

time is so precious you can't reply to a simple question ?

 

[pma]

No vinyl. You cannnot read the initial post?? I will no more reply stupid questions.

 

[anonyless]

i read the initial post several times before replying. thanks for answering and wasting my time listening.

 

[pjug]

Did you try Deltawave

The files actually match very well if you make Y the reference and use the DC filter correction. I didn't listen but I wouldn't expect to hear a difference.

 

[peng]

I had no axe to grind regarding expectations of the performance of the amps I tested. All were recommended by reviewers or owners of the same speakers or similar as mine, and all passed my check of specs, looks, etc and all were within the budget I had set - £3-8K. Why do you think they should all sound much the same?

You can't tell for sure just by comparing specs, and prices, but with the Amir kind of measurements, you should be able to make some reasonable assumptions.

If you went to a dozen concerts and listened to the same piece performed by well-respected orchestras, would you expect them to all sound the same? Of course not.

How is that relevant to what's being discussed?

Neither of us, I suspect would take measuring instruments into the concert hall - we would listen with our ears and judge each performance for what it is.

So what, how is that relevant?

Why are some here obsessed with measurements to the degree they believe all good-measuring amps will sound the same?

"good-measuring amps...", that's vague, I doubt too many on this forum would believe such a thing, and if you do, then I have no idea why. Most would at least question how is good-measuring defined.

If that were so, why should anyone buy any amp other than the cheapest that measures well?

what is "that"? Regardless, there could be many reasons why one would not buy the cheapest that measures well, and again, "well" is vague, not enough information for someone to answer your question without more specifics.

 

[peng]

Maybe just test yourself and post the results with the verification if you are able to discern difference.

The results are more important than your semantic complaint.

You misread my points. That's okay, I can't complain as I did worse (not by intention though)! I missed the op's post entirely, for some reason the little iphone only showed the thread title and the answer choices at the time and I only saw the rest of the contents now when I am on the PC.

Still, I made no semantic complaint, as I specifically referred to the title:

"Do all amplifiers sound the same? Level matched listening test"​

If that's the whole poll question (and that's how it appeared, to be the only question when I first viewed it on my phone), then I standby my comments that are based on facts, again, not semantic at all.

It is a simple fact that "all amplifiers" is very different than two specific amps, both measured on the test bench. I have no idea why pma worded it that way, the poll itself, with the music files are great, especially if the title wasn't even there.

Case in point, semantic or not, it is precisely such generalized statements such as ...all amplifiers sound the same.... led to some equally silly counterpoint/questions (such as Hear here's) "If that were so, why should anyone buy any amp other than the cheapest that measures well?"

The OP's opening sentence "One more to this never ending discussion." Imo, if we keep asking questions like his (that surprised me as we are talking about pma here who I respect..), then we should expect more such never ending discussion, though seemingly people don't really mind lol..

 

[MAB]

You misread my points. That's okay, I can't complain as I did worse (not by intention though)! I missed the op's post entirely, for some reason the little iphone only showed the thread title and the answer choices at the time and I only saw the rest of the contents now when I am on the PC.

Still, I made no semantic complaint, as I specifically referred to the title:

"Do all amplifiers sound the same? Level matched listening test"​

If that's the whole poll question (and that's how it appeared, to be the only question when I first viewed it on my phone), then I standby my comments that are based on facts, again, not semantic at all.

It is a simple fact that "all amplifiers" is very different than two specific amps, both measured on the test bench. I have no idea why pma worded it that way, the poll itself, with the music files are great, especially if the title wasn't even there.

Case in point, semantic or not, it is precisely such generalized statements such as ...all amplifiers sound the same.... led to some equally silly counterpoint/questions (such as Hear here's) "If that were so, why should anyone buy any amp other than the cheapest that measures well?"

The OP's opening sentence "One more to this never ending discussion." Imo, if we keep asking questions like his (that surprised me as we are talking about pma here who I respect..), then we should expect more such never ending discussion, though seemingly people don't really mind lol..

Lot's of discussion, much of it in second-language, so we all going right past each other.
Not a lot of test-taking to evaluate if a difference can actually be heard.

Actually testing our ability to discern differences at our threshold of perception is difficult, more so than just saying stuff for most people. So no surprise so many posts and so few tests reported.

 

[Oddball]

Lot's of discussion, much of it in second-language, so we all going right past each other.
Not a lot of test-taking to evaluate if a difference can actually be heard.

Actually testing our ability to discern differences at our threshold of perception is difficult, more so than just saying stuff for most people. So no surprise so many posts and so few tests reported.

My mother told me not to click on links on the internet as not safe . She was a wise women.

Share concerns with Peng that this is badly framed post to start with. The question is obvious even before any tests. Not all amps level matched sound the same.

To go to extremes, my first Lo-Fi was a Polish made turntable with an amp and 4W speakers. For 1970's was really posh looking black and orange design. Don't have measurements for it but it was likely below 20dB SINAD.

My Parasound amps exhibit a hiss at ear distance which is annoying but ultimately does not translate into real world use issues. I can tell my Rotel amps from Byrston on LCR with very high level of confidence. When I bridge Bryston to 1000W, level of confidence goes even higher and when I bridge Rotels can still tell the Bryston with high level of confidence.

 

[Hear Here]

You can't tell for sure just by comparing specs, and prices, but with the Amir kind of measurements, you should be able to make some reasonable assumptions.



How is that relevant to what's being discussed?



So what, how is that relevant?



"good-measuring amps...", that's vague, I doubt too many on this forum would believe such a thing, and if you do, then I have no idea why. Most would at least question how is good-measuring defined.



what is "that"? Regardless, there could be many reasons why one would not buy the cheapest that measures well, and again, "well" is vague, not enough information for someone to answer your question without more specifics.

It's not me asking the questions. I was responding to the general claim that all good measuring amps will sound good. I disagree with that notion and explained why I disagree. Up to readers to offer their own observations, rather than to criticise mine, particularly as mine were the result to extended listening tests - using ears rather than with a microphone.

 

[audio_tony]

So no surprise so many posts and so few tests reported.

Probably due to two factors. 1) some of us have a life and 2) some of us probably enjoy swapping amps etc. even if they don't necessarily sound different.
It's all part of the hobby isn't it?