Do active speakers for hifi listening (not monitoring/pro use) make sense anymore?

[tokyo_blues]

@tokyo_blues did you mention your listening room size by the way?

Sorry, no I didn't. Approx 7x10m.

 

[Audionaut]

Sorry no. Approx 7x10m.

How high is the room?

 

[tokyo_blues]

How high is the room?

275cm. I would be placing the speakers on the narrower (7m dimension) firing into the longer dimension.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Thanks - they're not floorstanders, and while I think they look good, they don't fit the room so WAF is inexistent. I wish Genelec could partner up with Sonus Faber etc:

or this

or

another good example of de gustibus
these are not my cup of shellac

 

[tokyo_blues]

another good example of de gustibus
these are not my cup of shellac

It was just an example of wooden speakers that might/might not fit a living room.

Here's some more - Harbeth

ProAc

Fyne

Tannoy

etc

 

[KSTR]

Thanks - they're not floorstanders, and while I think they look good, they don't fit the room so WAF is inexistent. I wish Genelec could partner up with Sonus Faber etc:

or this

or

Ah, I see. You want something that is more boutique furniture style.

Then maybe the MEG Geithain ME802K could be a option, those are pro Studio Monitors in a Home Hifi disguise, big powerful floorstanders with cardioid bass.

ME 802K • ME Geithain HighEnd

[{

www.me-geithain-highend.de

MEG is one of the highest profile studio monitor company in Germany: https://www.me-geithain.de/en/geschichte.html

 

[tokyo_blues]

Ah, I see. You want something that is more boutique furniture style.

See above follow up images. Not necessarily 'boutique' style, just something compatible with a furnished living room. I mentioned ATC SCM40 earlier, those could also work.

Thank you for the MEG recommendation - one more to listen to and for my notes.

 

[Fledermaus]

You might also consider DIY active design, possibly with subcontracted carpentry work - at least that's what I did : no crazy prices, lots of fun and knowledge gained, and if you learn and manage decently, a very satisfactory experience in the end.

 

[Audionaut]

These are a good and relatively inexpensive option if you're looking for new speakers.

Heco Celan Revolution 9

Test Hochpegel-Standbox Heco Celan Revolution 9 - LowBeats

Auf den Norddeutschen HiFi Tagen 2019 machte Heco Vertriebsleiter Mario Lode ein interessantes, aber

www.lowbeats.de

 

[Puddingbuks]

It's dangerous nonsense to write something like that, because some people might believe it. If the speaker chassis can't handle the excursion and power handling, they will simply be mechanically destroyed. It's that simple. And before they burn out, they will distort heavily in the range before destruction. Even with high excursion capabilities, a small driver usually has a smaller displacement volume and a smaller voice coil, which results in lower mechanical power handling.
For tricks with the DSP, which the driver is reluctant to follow in a passive crossover, you need very resilient speaker drivers with a large headroom. As a rule, I only work with frequency reductions, not boosts, in active speakers.
If I want to raise and amplify the bass range with DSP, I only use very resilient PA drivers of the highest quality with large displacement volume and high mechanical and electrical resilience.
You can't outsmart physics. If you want high sound pressure and deep tuning at the same time, you need a lot of membrane area and large excursion capabilities. It doesn't matter whether active or passive. Only with active speakers can you interpret the Thiele Small parameters a little more generously.


Yes, the safest and best option is to build a passive crossover using only air coils and film capacitors—but that is expensive.

Bruno Putzeys says this, not me. I bet you are way smarter than him.

Anyways, the point is that Bruno is right. DSP and an active design can boost low frequencies to make maximum use of the drivers output capability. When playing louder, the boost will be lowered, the dsp limits the power so it stays within the drivers safe operating range.

The Kef LS60 also does this:

 

[tokyo_blues]

These are a good and relatively inexpensive option if you're looking for new speakers.

Heco Celan Revolution 9

Test Hochpegel-Standbox Heco Celan Revolution 9 - LowBeats

Auf den Norddeutschen HiFi Tagen 2019 machte Heco Vertriebsleiter Mario Lode ein interessantes, aber

www.lowbeats.de

View attachment 498358

Thank you. In that price range - or a little above - I see there are also the KEF LS60 and the Buchardt A700. Do you have a comparative opinion on these? Are you aware of measurements for the HECO floorstanders? Which would you personally go for if you were shopping today in the price range?

 

[Audionaut]

Bruno Putzeys says this, not me.

I think the summary you posted is from an AI.

An active system can typically do some trickery to extend lower in the bass, but not at unlimited listening volumes.

Even Bruno Putzey and you can't outsmart physics. If you want high sound pressure and deep tuning at the same time, you need a lot of membrane area and large excursion capabilities. It doesn't matter whether active or passive. Only with active speakers can you interpret the Thiele Small parameters a little more generously.

You can use active solutions exclusively to make something that is already good even better, but you cannot perform miracles with them or, for example, transform a poor chassis into a high-end speaker.

You can believe that or not, it doesn't change the physics. If you think you can achieve the same sound pressure and bass depth with any Purifi 6.5-inch chassis and a 2-kilowatt amplifier with DSP as with a well-tuned 15- or 18-inch long-throw chassis in passive speakers, then good luck and go for it.

 

[YSDR]

By contrast, an active system can "look ahead" at the music, adjust the drivers in real-time to prevent damage, and use heavy amplification to force small drivers to produce massive, accurate bass that would be impossible in a passive setup.

Yeah, meanwhile producing a lot of distortion and/or compression, because small drivers (and cabinets) are ... small, no matter what.

 

[Audionaut]

Do you have a comparative opinion on these?

I think all of these are speakers that can make you happy. For me personally, it would be important to be able to listen to ready-made speakers beforehand, preferably at home or in a room that is roughly the same size as my listening room.

I only have speakers that I have built myself, most of which are active.

Sigberg and I happen to have a very similar idea of how a speaker should be constructed, which I have noticed here on ASR.

I also prefer to use PA coaxial speakers with a very powerful and adjustable subwoofer. All of this is activated and controlled via DSP.
For me, this is the best solution, but I can understand that not everyone wants to learn about measurement technology and speaker construction and is looking for a ready-made solution.

 

[tokyo_blues]

I think all of these are speakers that can make you happy. For me personally, it would be important to be able to listen to ready-made speakers beforehand, preferably at home or in a room that is roughly the same size as my listening room.

I only have speakers that I have built myself, most of which are active.

Sigberg and I happen to have a very similar idea of how a speaker should be constructed, which I have noticed here on ASR.

I also prefer to use PA coaxial speakers with a very powerful and adjustable subwoofer. All of this is activated and controlled via DSP.
For me, this is the best solution, but I can understand that not everyone wants to learn about measurement technology and speaker construction and is looking for a ready-made solution.

Thank you. I see you're located in NRW, Germany. I live in Aachen. Do you sell your speakers? Do you know of any local custom speakers makers where I could go for a listen and discuss design/buy direct? Else, do you have any recommendations for great hifi shops in NRW or the Netherlands/Belgium area where to look for advice and perhaps guide my choice with some listening?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Even Bruno Putzey and you can't outsmart physics. If you want high sound pressure and deep tuning at the same time, you need a lot of membrane area and large excursion capabilities. It doesn't matter whether active or passive. Only with active speakers can you interpret the Thiele Small parameters a little more generously.

You can use active solutions exclusively to make something that is already good even better, but you cannot perform miracles with them or, for example, transform a poor chassis into a high-end speaker.

You can believe that or not, it doesn't change the physics. If you think you can achieve the same sound pressure and bass depth with any Purifi 6.5-inch chassis and a 2-kilowatt amplifier with DSP as with a well-tuned 15- or 18-inch long-throw chassis in passive speakers, then good luck and go for it.

I feel like we are in agreement here, I hope I have not implied otherwise.

 

[Puddingbuks]

I think the summary you posted is from an AI.



Even Bruno Putzey and you can't outsmart physics. If you want high sound pressure and deep tuning at the same time, you need a lot of membrane area and large excursion capabilities. It doesn't matter whether active or passive. Only with active speakers can you interpret the Thiele Small parameters a little more generously.

You can use active solutions exclusively to make something that is already good even better, but you cannot perform miracles with them or, for example, transform a poor chassis into a high-end speaker.

You can believe that or not, it doesn't change the physics. If you think you can achieve the same sound pressure and bass depth with any Purifi 6.5-inch chassis and a 2-kilowatt amplifier with DSP as with a well-tuned 15- or 18-inch long-throw chassis in passive speakers, then good luck and go for it.

It is an AI summary of the transcript of the video, so bruno said it, just watch it.

The point is, you can use lots of watts in an active speaker to boost the bass, so that the enclosure can be small. This will make it possible to have lots of deep bass in a relative small enclosure. If you turn the volume up, at some point the small drivers can’t keep up so that they will be limited in power by the dsp. A passive LS60 would be impossible.

For really loud bass you will need lots of power AND large enclosures and drivers, like my Monoprice monolith 15’s.

 

[Audionaut]

Thank you. I see you're located in NRW, Germany. I live in Aachen. Do you sell your speakers? Do you know of any local custom speakers makers where I could go for a listen and discuss design/buy direct?

No, I'm not a dealer.
I must admit that I haven't been to a hi-fi store in years.

The only place I can think of nearby is Schluderbacher, which has a really large selection.

Hifi-Schluderbacher - Ihr Hifi-Händler seit 40 Jahren

In unserem Online-Shop finden Sie über 2000 Artikel. Kategorien: Lautsprecher, TV, Plattenspieler, Heimkino und vieles mehr. Erstklassige Beratung und Preise.

www.hifi-schluderbacher.de

There used to be a very active hi-fi scene in Aachen, but I really don't know what it's like today.

Udo Wohlgemuth and his son have a store in Bochum for DIY enthusiasts. They work with the Thomaier carpentry shop, and you can also test speakers there. Udo is very helpful.

Lautsprecher selber bauen by Acoustic Design Wohlgemuth – Ein Magazin für den Lautsprecherbau

www.acoustic-design-magazin.de

Dieter Achenbach sells high-efficiency kits and also arranges listening appointments, but that's further away from Aachen.

Lautsprechershop - Lautsprecherbausatz - Lautsprecherversand

Achenbach-Akustik: der Lautsprechershop mit Lösungen für Einsteiger und Spezialisten. Lautsprecherbausatz & Lautsprecher Chassis für den Lautsprecher selbstbau.

lsv-achenbach.de

The Lautsprechershop sells kits and everything else you need for speakers. I don't know if you can listen to them there.

Lautsprechershop Daniel Gattig GmbH: Lautsprecher / Loudspeaker / Haut-parleurs / Altavoces / Altoparlanti - do-it-yourself

www.lautsprechershop.de

I'll get back to you if I think of anything else.

I feel like we are in agreement here, I hope I have not implied otherwise.

I think we're always on the same page when it comes to speakers, Thorbjørn

 

[Audionaut]

@tokyo_blues I took a look.
In Aachen, you can try here to see if it's something for you.

Klangpunkt HiFi – classic hi-fi studio

HOME bei KLANGPUNKT in Aachen

www.klangpunkt.de

SoundSmart Audiolösungen – small hi-fi specialist store

Site is undergoing maintenance

Site is undergoing maintenance

sound-smart.de

AVITECT Studio Aachen – specializes in hi-fi, speakers, home cinema, and smart audio solutions

Aachen

AVITECT Studio Aachen | Home Entertainment & Heimkino | » Laser TV » Lautsprecher » Beamer » Leinwände. Beratung ↔ Planung ↔ Installation

www.avitect.de

Klangppunkt used to be good, no idea what it's like today.

 

[JohnnyNG]

Actually, I would ask:

Do passive speakers for hifi listening make sense anymore? ​