DIYSG HTM-12v1 Speaker Review

[tomtoo]

I like the "power hifi" moniker, but I thought this was designed first for home theater. As such, it should be sensitive, low distortion and have good speech intelligibility.

Absolutly ok.

 

[beaRA]

Yes. Yamaha AVRs have a user accessible 6 or 7 band PEQ per channel.

Unless the newer versions are better, the manual PEQ on my RX-A760 is far too limited. You only get 7 bands (the PEQ from @Maiky76 requires 11), 3 of the bands can't be used below 500Hz, frequencies can only be selected in 1/3rd octave intervals, Q values are not precise, only 0.5 dB gain steps.

 

[mtg90]

How do you feel the consistency of the updated drivers would compare to this v1 compression driver?

I certainly hope they are more consistent, it's one of the reasons we moved away from the Chinese clone compression drivers to name brand compression drivers.

 

[beaRA]

I certainly hope they are more consistent, it's one of the reasons we moved away from the Chinese clone compression drivers to name brand compression drivers.

A change in supplier seems like reason enough to have more confidence. I'd love to see the new version Klippel tested!

 

[Absolute]

Wow, there's real potential in this thing! What a nice waveguide!

 

[johnp98]

If @mtg90 can send the updated parts to me, I can swap them out and test and we can have full data for the v2 speaker.

If that is a no go, then if someone wants to send me their v2 I will test it. But sending a big speaker like that isn't going to be cheap.

If no one is able to sent the v2 components then I could potentially take the crossover and woofer and compression driver out of mine and then send them to you. The down side is that I live in Canada so it would cost a bit more and probably take a bit longer to arrive.

Alternatively I would be willing to financially pitch in if someone else was closer or someone had a better idea.

 

[jtwrace]

@hardisj needs some 1099's to measure too

 

[hardisj]

@hardisj needs some 1099's to measure too

on it!

 

[jtwrace]

on it!

About darn time you do something.

 

[hardisj]

About darn time you do something.

I hate you.

 

[jtwrace]

I hate you.

Perfect!

 

[Maiky76]

btw this is not the first time your algorithim is producing filters with 0 dB gain, is this behavior intentional? should be very easy to fix.

What are referring to?

DIYSG HTM-12v1 APO EQ LW-Score 96000Hz
May242021-122106

Preamp: -4.3 dB

Filter 1: ON HPQ Fc 67.5 Hz Gain 0 dB Q 1.15 -> type is HPQ not PK
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 115 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 0.66
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 157 Hz Gain 3.57 dB Q 2.09
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 548 Hz Gain -2.25 dB Q 1.17
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 671 Hz Gain 2.77 dB Q 4.08
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 900 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 5.5
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 1122 Hz Gain -2.51 dB Q 6
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 2985 Hz Gain 4.45 dB Q 3.37
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 5794 Hz Gain 1.69 dB Q 3.07
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 8336 Hz Gain -1.71 dB Q 1.17
Filter 11: ON PK Fc 13455 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 7.84
Filter 12: ON PK Fc 17737 Hz Gain -5.35 dB Q 6.84

I always use 0dB gain for the HPQ when I use one.
The HPQ type is High-Pass filter with arbitrary Q as opposed to Butterworth, Chebychev, Linkwitz–Riley etc.
Adding a gain there would result in a gain applied to the whole cascaded filter which is not necessary since I also compute the Preamp gain.

Have a look there for the definition of the biquads:
https://sourceforge.net/p/equalizerapo/wiki/Configuration reference/

Usually the two first filters are used to
- Shape the LF response (obviously) and maximize the output within the bandwidth of the speaker
- Remove the bump around 100Hz very often present
- Protect the speaker from over-execution below the tuning frequency (ported speakers)

 

[jhaider]

To that end, is there an AVR/AVP that will let you apply manual PEQ to a full surround set?

Monoprice HTP-1.

IMO the SEOS horn design really shines in the normalized polars. That's a huge credit to the DIY community's engineering chops. IMO the trick is to find a compression driver that's as smooth as possible to minimize the manipulations required. I don't suppose there's a 1" exit JBL ring radiator with Voishvillo's phase plug? Tymphany and SB Acoustics have gotten into the compression driver market. Maybe they have a more "hifi" sensibility of prioritizing smoother (never going to get smooth from a compression driver on a horn) response over performance venue filling SPL?

 

[abdo123]

What are referring to?

DIYSG HTM-12v1 APO EQ LW-Score 96000Hz
May242021-122106

Preamp: -4.3 dB

Filter 1: ON HPQ Fc 67.5 Hz Gain 0 dB Q 1.15 -> type is HPQ not PK
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 115 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 0.66
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 157 Hz Gain 3.57 dB Q 2.09
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 548 Hz Gain -2.25 dB Q 1.17
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 671 Hz Gain 2.77 dB Q 4.08
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 900 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 5.5
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 1122 Hz Gain -2.51 dB Q 6
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 2985 Hz Gain 4.45 dB Q 3.37
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 5794 Hz Gain 1.69 dB Q 3.07
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 8336 Hz Gain -1.71 dB Q 1.17
Filter 11: ON PK Fc 13455 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 7.84
Filter 12: ON PK Fc 17737 Hz Gain -5.35 dB Q 6.84

I always use 0dB gain for the HPQ when I use one.
The HPQ type is High-Pass filter with arbitrary Q as opposed to Butterworth, Chebychev, Linkwitz–Riley etc.
Adding a gain there would result in a gain applied to the whole cascaded filter which is not necessary since I also compute the Preamp gain.

Have a look there for the definition of the biquads:
https://sourceforge.net/p/equalizerapo/wiki/Configuration reference/

Usually the two first filters are used to
- Shape the LF response (obviously) and maximize the output within the bandwidth of the speaker
- Remove the bump around 100Hz very often present
- Protect the speaker from over-execution below the tuning frequency (ported speakers)

Aah sorry i just noticed it’s a highpass filter my bad.

 

[beaRA]

Monoprice HTP-1.

IMO the SEOS horn design really shines in the normalized polars. That's a huge credit to the DIY community's engineering chops. IMO the trick is to find a compression driver that's as smooth as possible to minimize the manipulations required. I don't suppose there's a 1" exit JBL ring radiator with Voishvillo's phase plug? Tymphany and SB Acoustics have gotten into the compression driver market. Maybe they have a more "hifi" sensibility of prioritizing smoother (never going to get smooth from a compression driver on a horn) response over performance venue filling SPL?

Thanks, that would do it. Not sure about the value proposition of a $4000 processor and a compete set of separate amps to enable anechoic correction of a $300 speaker. I guess you could go Denon X3700H and use all the pre-outs to a miniDSP 10x10 HD for about half the price.

 

[changer]

Monoprice HTP-1.

IMO the SEOS horn design really shines in the normalized polars. That's a huge credit to the DIY community's engineering chops. IMO the trick is to find a compression driver that's as smooth as possible to minimize the manipulations required. I don't suppose there's a 1" exit JBL ring radiator with Voishvillo's phase plug? Tymphany and SB Acoustics have gotten into the compression driver market. Maybe they have a more "hifi" sensibility of prioritizing smoother (never going to get smooth from a compression driver on a horn) response over performance venue filling SPL?

Ring radiator compression drivers are not necessarily superior to a traditional dome shaped diaphragm. They feature less surface area and have problems with distortion at their lower bandwidth limit, have lower mass and lesser low end extension. What Erin's test (thank you!) showed most prominently is that a large 2-way needs a sophisticated correction network. The equalization showed what can be achieved. The large SEOS-15 waveguide is a competent design that can be corrected in many ways because pattern and directiviy seem to be stable and correlated both on- and off-axis, albeit a bit large. A more expansive passive network or an active version help more than spending money on a boutique compression driver.

 

[Ericglo]

Monoprice HTP-1.

IMO the SEOS horn design really shines in the normalized polars. That's a huge credit to the DIY community's engineering chops. IMO the trick is to find a compression driver that's as smooth as possible to minimize the manipulations required. I don't suppose there's a 1" exit JBL ring radiator with Voishvillo's phase plug? Tymphany and SB Acoustics have gotten into the compression driver market. Maybe they have a more "hifi" sensibility of prioritizing smoother (never going to get smooth from a compression driver on a horn) response over performance venue filling SPL?

https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...audience-bianco-44cd-pk-compression-driver-1/

This SB looks like it might work.

 

[hex168]

Thanks, that would do it. Not sure about the value proposition of a $4000 processor and a compete set of separate amps to enable anechoic correction of a $300 speaker. I guess you could go Denon X3700H and use all the pre-outs to a miniDSP 10x10 HD for about half the price.

Wouldn't any Denon with Audyssey XT32 do this with the app? No miniDSP or separate amps needed?

 

[beaRA]

Wouldn't any Denon with Audyssey XT32 do this with the app? No miniDSP or separate amps needed?

Does the MultEQ Editor app give you access to Manual PEQ? Without that, you can't do a correction based on these anechoic results.

 

[hex168]

Does the MultEQ Editor app give you access to Manual PEQ? Without that, you can't do a correction based on these anechoic results.

I do not think so, others will know more. But even without direct entry of PEQ parameters, you could match the required EQ curve. Something like this might help:
https://www.musicdsp.org/en/latest/Filters/218-plotting-r-b-j-equalisers-in-excel.html