DIY vs Finished speakers vs Used market

[kharan]

The Audio First Fidelia checks that box, but AFAIK it's based in the US so shipping might be a problem. There is a reason everyone's mentioning that speaker, there aren't a lot of kits that deliver SOTA performance today. Despite what I say below about used, it's not a bad option for the money.

UK, not US.

 

[Mort]

I got some Genelec 8030Bs for around $500...

Going one revision behind with Genelec is a very good strategy. I see some pretty cheap 8351a's.

 

[Chrispy]

The value proposition of DIY is often that you can build a DIY speaker of the same quality as a commercial speaker for about 25-50% of the cost. Or for the same cost you can build something significantly better.

Caveats:

• If you don't have some good reasonable woodworking tools, the DIY value proposition goes down significantly. There are a very small number of "Kits" out there, but in general you have to build the cabinet yourself. If you have to pay someone to build the cabinet, then a lot of the value proposition vanishes. Note - if you were building a design with high-end drivers then it still may be a good value as the cabinet as a percent of total cost will be lower. For example, you could probably build something DIY for $1,500 using Purifi or Revelator drivers that would exceed almost anything commercial for $1,500.
• There are a few second-hand commercial speakers out there that if you can get them for a good price that will definitely go toe-to-toe with any DIY alternative.

Depends if you assign a value to your time as well....especially if doing your own cabinet building/finishing.

 

[a4eaudio]

Depends if you assign a value to your time as well....especially if doing your own cabinet building/finishing.

I never take time off of work to work on speakers. So the opportunity cost of my time is the "next best alternative" which in this case would be sitting around reading a book or watching TV or something else with a zero monetary value.

 

[terryforsythe]

Depends if you assign a value to your time as well....especially if doing your own cabinet building/finishing.

Some people, me included, enjoy doing DIY projects as a hobby, and take satisfaction in seeing the results.

If someone views doing a DIY project more like work than fun, then it probably is not the way to go - the cost savings may not be worth the time, especially if there are used options at a good discount.

 

[Chrispy]

I never take time off of work to work on speakers. So the opportunity cost of my time is the "next best alternative" which in this case would be sitting around reading a book or watching TV or something else with a zero monetary value.

Yep that sort of rationalization is mine as well Plus its fun in a nerdy sort of way.

ps then again I was retired before I ever tried to put together a speaker or sub....

 

[Chrispy]

Some people, me included, enjoy doing DIY projects as a hobby, and take satisfaction in seeing the results.

If someone views doing a DIY project more like work than fun, then it probably is not the way to go - the cost savings may not be worth the time, especially if there are used options at a good discount.

Yep, I like doing things for myself whenever I can....I have built some speakers and subs for the audio side (and invested in woodworking tools to somewhat justify that ).

 

[Trangbar]

There is also the hybrid approach. I bought a pair of Proac Studio Towers which used ATC drivers - the same as in the SCM50s (almost - the bass driver was the LC version vs. the SCM50 SC version). I then did a lot of investigation to transition the Studio Towers to the SCM50s. Crossover, driver positioning, new baffle, port etc. A rare approach, but it was a lot fun to work on an I did learn a lot. Later on I was even able to source an ATC EC23 external active crossover to use with it.

 

[terryforsythe]

There is also the hybrid approach. I bought a pair of Proac Studio Towers which used ATC drivers - the same as in the SCM50s (almost - the bass driver was the LC version vs. the SCM50 SC version). I then did a lot of investigation to transition the Studio Towers to the SCM50s. Crossover, driver positioning, new baffle, port etc. A rare approach, but it was a lot fun to work on an I did learn a lot. Later on I was even able to source an ATC EC23 external active crossover to use with it.

I did something similar with my Elac Uni-Fi Reference speakers. I removed the passive crossovers and went all active. I am very pleased with the results.

 

[rdenney]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the hobby of speaker building, and the hours one spends doing it returns the time investment with joy. But building speakers when it isn’t one’s hobby isn’t a value proposition, and doesn’t return on that investment of time and money compared to alternatives. Plus, irs not that easy and those not enjoying themselves tend to get in a hurry. Ask me how I know. I’ve built speakers and listened to home-built speakers, and I’m pretty sure that getting good outcomes either requires a proven design with premium drivers or a lot of experimentation and scrounging for surplus and used drivers, and presents a significant risk. Hobbyists happily take those risks, and sometimes reap the rewards.

But if the sole objective is getting great speakers for under 1.5 kilobucks, used speakers of measured excellence will still be the shortest path to the highest ratio of performance to price.

Rick “objectives are important” Denney

 

[Roland68]

Would be interesting to hear why you suggest this speaker? Have you built it, what did it cost and such things.
From what I can see, it does not include the speaker box. I don't have enough wood working equipment to make the box from scratch, I can glue it together and I have enough skills to do the assembling, I can do veneer and painting, etc. but not make from scratch without the pieces.

Heissmann-Acoustics loudspeakers have an excellent reputation and can easily compete with significantly more expensive commercially available speakers.

In Germany, there are several suppliers of high-quality DIY loudspeakers, if that's something you're interested in.
Similarly, there are companies that specialize in speaker cabinet kits but also supply milled front panels or complete cabinets. Since they also offer custom work, you can have cabinets milled or built for other manufacturers' kits.

 

[Moonlightshadow]

You can go a long way with DIY.

 

[SanojS]

SB Kits do not look great?
View attachment 506008

I don't mean visually - I mean measured and SQ-wize (however that's "measured") for the price.

 

[somebodyelse]

That said, even if you are a 3D printing wizard, it doesn't improve the DIY value proposition that much, it just removes the need for a robust woodworking setup.

It also enables a few things that are difficult in wood without CNC, like waveguides and ports that aren't just a tube. There are a few designs that take advantage of the ability to do compound curves like the Genelecs too.

 

[SanojS]

Audio First Fidelia: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/audio_first_fidelia/

ooooh! this looks really nice but it's a bit expensive. It'll be 1350 Euro delivered unassembled... for that price I can buy the Q Concerto Meta and save a couple hundred euros

 

[SanojS]

I have played around building DIY speakers for years and have learned a lot in the process. For my last speaker project I decided to "get serious" and learn/use VituixCad to more systematically design and build some DIY speakers. After a steep learning curve on how to measure (outside on a turntable) and import the measurements into Virtuix Cad and start optimising my design I realized how futile DIY speakers really are and ended up buying some Neuman KH 310's instead. When you see Amirs measurements of the top performing speakers they look impressive but when you try to build speakers yourself to "match" this performance you realize how awesome the engineering and performance of some of these speakers really are. DIY speakers can be fun and a great learning experience and work quite well but it is very unlikely that you will ever be able to match the price and performance of some of the top speakers. I agree that if performance and value are what you are after buying some used modern well measuring speakers or maybe Ascilabs is a good way to go.

Thanks for this - It was where I was leaning but I was also very interested in trying to build... so it's more of a side hobby than actually achieving a good sounding system with good ROI. This was the kind of experience I was after! So I will continue scouring the used hifi sales pages in my country to find my "optimal" deal.

 

[SanojS]

Although it is not entirely fair to compare second-hand commercial speakers ONLY to brand new DIY. I have acquired over the last two months, through patient eBay watching, $2,200 worth of Revelator tweeters, 5" midrange and 8" woofers for $800. So if someone wanted to build a proven DIY design using relatively popular drivers, and they were patient enough, they could probably get the raw drivers for about 50-60% of the new driver cost.

Good point!

 

[Maxim-ICOM]

ooooh! this looks really nice but it's a bit expensive. It'll be 1350 Euro delivered unassembled... for that price I can buy the Q Concerto Meta and save a couple hundred euros

You may go with EKA Ceramic by StereoArt - the design based on SB Acoustics EKA cabinets but with ceramic drivers.
EKA Ceramic kit by StereoArt
All parts with cabinets unassembled will be under 1200€ with VAT and shipping in EU.
Cabinets are factory made, the quality is great, better then many shop speakers, all the hardware included.
You need to solder crossovers, but it is only 7 elements, quite simple, you'll assemble it in one evening.

EKA Ceramic sounds and measures better then 7000$ branded speakers based on about same ceramic drivers:

Marten Oscar Duo loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I measured the Marten Oscar Duo's farfield behavior with DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone. I used an Earthworks QTC-40 mike for the speaker's nearfield and spatially averaged in-room responses. I didn't have the optional magnetically attached...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Maxim-ICOM]

I don't mean visually - I mean measured and SQ-wize (however that's "measured") for the price.

SB have quite strange measurements for all the kits on site.

Example: SB Sasandu - SB measurements, look like in-room with no smoothing:

Re-measured with Clio - "complex summ of near + gated far": it fits to +-2dB

 

[terryforsythe]

ooooh! this looks really nice but it's a bit expensive. It'll be 1350 Euro delivered unassembled... for that price I can buy the Q Concerto Meta and save a couple hundred euros

If DIY seems more like work to you than fun, that is a pragmatic approach. Both speakers have their advantages.