DIY vs Finished speakers vs Used market

[SanojS]

Are there any DIY kits that would be able to rival (measurements / sound quality / usability) with known speakers in the 500-1500 Euro price bracket?
I'm building a system for my summer house that will be used for critical listening and home theater purpose, so it should be multi-purpose. It also has to be able to travel (if I move in the next 5 years) so I prefer bookshelf speakers. The only component I have is a KEF Kube 12b and speaker cables. The rest I will buy or build, either new or used.

First step, I am considering to build a speaker. I have done it in the past for fun, cheap and not very good speaker.
I have looked at soundimports.eu and audiohobby.eu (I'm in EU) and for me it looks like the speakers in the 500-1000 Euro price bracket are cheap and fun and decent rather than good...
If I go up to 1000-1500 bracket, the market is saturated with good speakers like the KEF Q Concerto Meta that I would think could return equal or better SQ/ROI than equivalent DIY build, but I have no experience in this.

There's also a plethora of used speakers in this bracket like for example Taga harmony b60 v3 at 600 Euro or Buchardt S200 at 700 Euro.

Does anyone have similar experience of DIY builds that results in a speaker that can rival new or used speakers in this price bracket?

 

[ShadowFiend]

Heissmann-Acoustics DXT-MON 182

 

[SanojS]

Heissmann-Acoustics DXT-MON 182

Would be interesting to hear why you suggest this speaker? Have you built it, what did it cost and such things.
From what I can see, it does not include the speaker box. I don't have enough wood working equipment to make the box from scratch, I can glue it together and I have enough skills to do the assembling, I can do veneer and painting, etc. but not make from scratch without the pieces.

 

[ShadowFiend]

I suggest it because it measures great, and sounds great even at high sound level in my 25m² room, thanks to a great midwoofer Wavecor WF182BD09. I don't recommend any two-way speakers using SB Acoustics SB17 as a midwoofer based on extensive experience with them.

I built it 1 year ago with mostly used drivers and components I got from local site, so they only cost around 800€. If you buy new, expect them to cost 900€ without cabinet. For cabinet, I bought mpx (plywood) then cut and assemble it in wood workshop. Heissmann provide you detail cut-out diagram in the plan you buy so you can easily contract carpenter to cut the wood for you.

 

[SanojS]

I suggest it because it measures great, and sounds great even at high sound level in my 25m² room, thanks to a great midwoofer Wavecor WF182BD09. I don't recommend any two-way speakers using SB Acoustics SB17 as a midwoofer based on extensive experience with them.

I built it 1 year ago with mostly used drivers and components I got from local site, so they only cost around 800€. If you buy new, expect them to cost 900€ without cabinet. For cabinet, I bought mpx (plywood) then cut and assemble it in wood workshop. Heissmann provide you detail cut-out diagram in the plan you buy so you can easily contract carpenter to cut the wood for you.

Thanks!
OK yes I've seen several SB Acoustics kits and they don't look great. Trying to find someone to source the cabinet will be a bit of a gamble, and will probably cost a fortune (if I find any local carpenters willing to cut out those for me). Skilled labor is mad expensive where I live since they are not common and are in a sellers market.

 

[Maxim-ICOM]

Thanks!
... SB Acoustics kits and they don't look great. Trying to find someone to source the cabinet will be a bit of a gamble, and will probably cost a fortune (if I find any local carpenters willing to cut out those for me). Skilled labor is mad expensive where I live since they are not common and are in a sellers market.

SB Kits do not look great?

 

[mikewxyz]

@SanojS for your situation I recommend buying used.

 

[staticV3]

Are there any DIY kits that would be able to rival (measurements / sound quality / usability) with known speakers in the 500-1500 Euro price bracket?

Audio First Fidelia: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/audio_first_fidelia/

 

[mhardy6647]

@SanojS for your situation I recommend buying used.

I concur wholheartedly, FWIW.
Massive depreciation on many if not most loudspeaker brands and models. Interestingly, (very) vintage JBL and Altec have held their value well and have even appreciated.
EDIT: ... guess what I use?

The only faster depreciation rates, methinks, in hifi are esoteric cables.

 

[terryforsythe]

Are there any DIY kits that would be able to rival (measurements / sound quality / usability) with known speakers in the 500-1500 Euro price bracket?
I'm building a system for my summer house that will be used for critical listening and home theater purpose, so it should be multi-purpose. It also has to be able to travel (if I move in the next 5 years) so I prefer bookshelf speakers. The only component I have is a KEF Kube 12b and speaker cables. The rest I will buy or build, either new or used.

First step, I am considering to build a speaker. I have done it in the past for fun, cheap and not very good speaker.
I have looked at soundimports.eu and audiohobby.eu (I'm in EU) and for me it looks like the speakers in the 500-1000 Euro price bracket are cheap and fun and decent rather than good...
If I go up to 1000-1500 bracket, the market is saturated with good speakers like the KEF Q Concerto Meta that I would think could return equal or better SQ/ROI than equivalent DIY build, but I have no experience in this.

There's also a plethora of used speakers in this bracket like for example Taga harmony b60 v3 at 600 Euro or Buchardt S200 at 700 Euro.

Does anyone have similar experience of DIY builds that results in a speaker that can rival new or used speakers in this price bracket?

Audio First Fidelia

 

[levimax]

I have played around building DIY speakers for years and have learned a lot in the process. For my last speaker project I decided to "get serious" and learn/use VituixCad to more systematically design and build some DIY speakers. After a steep learning curve on how to measure (outside on a turntable) and import the measurements into Virtuix Cad and start optimising my design I realized how futile DIY speakers really are and ended up buying some Neuman KH 310's instead. When you see Amirs measurements of the top performing speakers they look impressive but when you try to build speakers yourself to "match" this performance you realize how awesome the engineering and performance of some of these speakers really are. DIY speakers can be fun and a great learning experience and work quite well but it is very unlikely that you will ever be able to match the price and performance of some of the top speakers. I agree that if performance and value are what you are after buying some used modern well measuring speakers or maybe Ascilabs is a good way to go.

 

[rdenney]

Are there any DIY kits that would be able to rival (measurements / sound quality / usability) with known speakers in the 500-1500 Euro price bracket?
I'm building a system for my summer house that will be used for critical listening and home theater purpose, so it should be multi-purpose. It also has to be able to travel (if I move in the next 5 years) so I prefer bookshelf speakers. The only component I have is a KEF Kube 12b and speaker cables. The rest I will buy or build, either new or used.

First step, I am considering to build a speaker. I have done it in the past for fun, cheap and not very good speaker.
I have looked at soundimports.eu and audiohobby.eu (I'm in EU) and for me it looks like the speakers in the 500-1000 Euro price bracket are cheap and fun and decent rather than good...
If I go up to 1000-1500 bracket, the market is saturated with good speakers like the KEF Q Concerto Meta that I would think could return equal or better SQ/ROI than equivalent DIY build, but I have no experience in this.

There's also a plethora of used speakers in this bracket like for example Taga harmony b60 v3 at 600 Euro or Buchardt S200 at 700 Euro.

Does anyone have similar experience of DIY builds that results in a speaker that can rival new or used speakers in this price bracket?

I bought a pair of Revel Concerta F12 floor-standing speakers for $700, on ebay. I think you'd have to have magical gifts to do much better for under $1500, new, used, or homebuilt.

And I would never suggest building your own unless that is your hobby. I doubt the results would match what one can buy on the used market, and making something that looks nice isn't as easy at it looks. If you are already reasonably skills with wood, that may be an unnecessary warning.

Rick "would probably spend more building his own" Denney

 

[terryforsythe]

Rick "would probably spend more building his own" Denney

There is something to be said about the satisfaction of doing things DIY. But, unless you have access to a good wood shop or use a DIY kit, building nice looking speaker enclosures can be challenging. Enclosures can be 3D printed; I'm giving that a go. We'll see how they turn out.

 

[rdenney]

There is something to be said about the satisfaction of doing things DIY. But, unless you have access to a good wood shop or use a DIY kit, building nice looking speaker enclosures can be challenging. Enclosures can be 3D printed; I'm giving that a go. We'll see how they turn out.

I don't even want to know what kind of 3D printer would be needed to replicate the Revel F12 boxes Those puppies are nearly five feet tall.

And then there are the issues of mass and resonance.

Rick "admits to drooling over the Bambu H2X (or whatever it is) recently" Denney

 

[eddantes]

DIY - does not represent value. It represents achievement and self-satisfaction. A fun but challenging activity that is both form and function. I disagree about DIY being futile compared to top performers - you may not outdo, but one can come close (for some of us that is very satisfying indeed).

You want value - go for reliably well measuring brands like Revel and Kef on the used market.

If you want insane value - I'd say the IL line of the old Infinity speakers - is unlikely to be beat for price / perfomance (though the looks are - well - dated).

 

[terryforsythe]

DIY - does not represent value. It represents achievement and self-satisfaction.

In can represent both. Check out the video I posted above pertaining to Erin's testing and review of the Audio First Fidelia DIY kit. In my opinion, that DIY kit represents a good value. Clamps, glue, etc. are needed for assembling it, but with basic skills it is not overly difficult.

 

[a4eaudio]

The value proposition of DIY is often that you can build a DIY speaker of the same quality as a commercial speaker for about 25-50% of the cost. Or for the same cost you can build something significantly better.

Caveats:

• If you don't have some good reasonable woodworking tools, the DIY value proposition goes down significantly. There are a very small number of "Kits" out there, but in general you have to build the cabinet yourself. If you have to pay someone to build the cabinet, then a lot of the value proposition vanishes. Note - if you were building a design with high-end drivers then it still may be a good value as the cabinet as a percent of total cost will be lower. For example, you could probably build something DIY for $1,500 using Purifi or Revelator drivers that would exceed almost anything commercial for $1,500.
• There are a few second-hand commercial speakers out there that if you can get them for a good price that will definitely go toe-to-toe with any DIY alternative.

 

[a4eaudio]

...There are a few second-hand commercial speakers out there that if you can get them for a good price that will definitely go toe-to-toe with any DIY alternative.

Although it is not entirely fair to compare second-hand commercial speakers ONLY to brand new DIY. I have acquired over the last two months, through patient eBay watching, $2,200 worth of Revelator tweeters, 5" midrange and 8" woofers for $800. So if someone wanted to build a proven DIY design using relatively popular drivers, and they were patient enough, they could probably get the raw drivers for about 50-60% of the new driver cost.

 

[kemmler3D]

Are there any DIY kits that would be able to rival (measurements / sound quality / usability) with known speakers in the 500-1500 Euro price bracket?

The Audio First Fidelia checks that box, but AFAIK it's based in the US so shipping might be a problem. UK, thanks for the correction @kharan. There is a reason everyone's mentioning that speaker, there aren't a lot of kits that deliver SOTA performance today. Despite what I say below about used, it's not a bad option for the money.

Does anyone have similar experience of DIY builds that results in a speaker that can rival new or used speakers in this price bracket?

I thought about doing DIY for a long time, even started picking out drivers, but secondhand / used speakers tend to deliver a lot more value, especially if you don't already have a workshop / tools and good space for measuring the speaker.

I got some Genelec 8030Bs for around $500... patience pays off when it comes to used speakers.

Unless you have something specific in mind that is unaffordable or unavailable on the market, DIY is probably not the path to maximum bang-for-buck. I definitely recommend keeping a close eye on the secondhand market to make your money go as far as it can.

 

[kemmler3D]

I don't even want to know what kind of 3D printer would be needed to replicate the Revel F12 boxes Those puppies are nearly five feet tall.

If you have a lot of time and a large tube of epoxy, any enclosure can be 3D printed in parts. I've done a print on that scale and it hasn't fallen apart (yet)... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/3d-printing-a-qrd-n53-diffuser.54930/

That said, even if you are a 3D printing wizard, it doesn't improve the DIY value proposition that much, it just removes the need for a robust woodworking setup.