DIY Three Way System w/ Integrated Sub

[Digital_Thor]

I still use a radian 5208, you can see measurements in https://www.avsforum.com/threads/su...2104738/page-2?post_id=38398305#post-38398305 , it's similarly rough but tbh it sounds fine once you get the xo right (I recall going too low sounded really bad on certain female vocals)

This is particularly where KEF did it right, by using a small waveguide around the tweeter and a larger coil for the midrange to make space for it.
Much smoother response, because you have way less diffraction when minimizing all the little edges that the small wavelengths at higher frequencies can get a hold on, so to speak.
These in-wall KEF's could be the trick to easily build two nice floor-standers, and then "just" add subwoofers to fill in below 100Hz. I think it would be hard to find something much better, unless you are on a budget, then I would look for the Sica 5" coax and definitely use the money on an active design, with whatever larger woofers you might like.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...f-ci3160rlm-thx-in-wall-speaker-review.65587/

 

[EngineerNate]

Problem with the in wall kefs is it looks like they don't include the nice snap on trim ring the box speakers have on the coax, making getting that perfect flush mount more difficult.

I'm curious to see Erin's measurements on the newish Q1 Meta. Full range I expect that driver to struggle a bit, but if it's clean 300hz and up it could be a great candidate for cannibalization, considering those go on sale for $399 a pair semi frequently.

 

[PGansz]

Problem with the in wall kefs is it looks like they don't include the nice snap on trim ring the box speakers have on the coax, making getting that perfect flush mount more difficult.

I'm curious to see Erin's measurements on the newish Q1 Meta. Full range I expect that driver to struggle a bit, but if it's clean 300hz and up it could be a great candidate for cannibalization, considering those go on sale for $399 a pair semi frequently.

Honestly I think trim rings are pretty easy right? Shove a screw through the backside of the driver housing into a machined ring on the front baffle...

Here's Kef's architectural series - they have the whole housing: https://us.kef.com/collections/in-wall?page=1

Budget...yeah I mean value is the key here. I'll spend money if it's worth it. Otherwise good driver performance can be had at much cheaper prices. My wife would rather me spend the money on the wood and finishing

 

[EngineerNate]

The QLM series appears to have it and the RLM linked above with the flat face does not.

The flange of the driver sits behind the trim ring, so it's not so simple to replace. It also makes up a portion of the waveguide surface for the driver.

 

[PGansz]

Honestly I think trim rings are pretty easy right? Shove a screw through the backside of the driver housing into a machined ring on the front baffle...

Here's Kef's architectural series - they have the whole housing: https://us.kef.com/collections/in-wall?page=1

The QLM series appears to have it and the RLM linked above with the flat face does not.

The flange of the driver sits behind the trim ring, so it's not so simple to replace. It also makes up a portion of the waveguide surface for the driver.

With the large coax build I plan to have a fully removable back panel to reach in and unscrew anything.

I appreciate everyone's responses to date. I'll continue perusing used Kef meta series for a deal. If one can't be had I'll likely abandon and commit to a separate driver build. No rush on this build but I would prefer to settle this decision by February.

Build process will first be a basic, cheap box for taking measurements and learning best practice for the chosen components. I'll move to a furniture grade cabinet and finishings in Summer.

 

[EngineerNate]

The issue is more that if you want the driver to integrate nicely with the baffle both visually and sonically, you need to cannibalize a speaker that has the separate trim ring.

You can see the way the driver integrates pretty well in this video:

 

[Digital_Thor]

Problem with the in wall kefs is it looks like they don't include the nice snap on trim ring the box speakers have on the coax, making getting that perfect flush mount more difficult.

I'm curious to see Erin's measurements on the newish Q1 Meta. Full range I expect that driver to struggle a bit, but if it's clean 300hz and up it could be a great candidate for cannibalization, considering those go on sale for $399 a pair semi frequently.

I thought the whole point was, that you just slap the whole thing on the front of a box - done. True, that if you wish to make it all by yourself, then that trim ring is a thing you have to make yourself - some do - but I would buy it, and use it as is.

 

[Digital_Thor]

You have a little more freedom with this one:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-thx-in-ceiling-in-wall-speaker-review.44307/
Raw response is a little ragged, but with some EQ, it looks like there's hope

 

[PGansz]

You have a little more freedom with this one:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-thx-in-ceiling-in-wall-speaker-review.44307/
Raw response is a little ragged, but with some EQ, it looks like there's hope

Wow I missed this review - thanks for surfacing that. SALLY THE CAMEL definitely has three humps. EQ-able though. I don't like seeing that distortion hump either, but compromises have to be made.

 

[EngineerNate]

I thought the whole point was, that you just slap the whole thing on the front of a box - done. True, that if you wish to make it all by yourself, then that trim ring is a thing you have to make yourself - some do - but I would buy it, and use it as is.

Yes, I am just cautioning to pick the donor speaker wisely as to provide the trim ring with the driver. Some of the on wall units do not have them.

I ran into this trying to buy kef drivers on ebay.

 

[PGansz]

Revitalizing this thread for an update:

It appears damaged R2's and R6's come up for sale regularly with intact coaxials for around $700, a price I'm willing to pay.

I will need to get them first but this seems to be viable. Additionally, if purchased in black, the Dayton SIG270 drivers are a dead-on finish match, and work well in sealed enclosure to planned crossover. I am currently planning to purchase three of these coaxes, with six of the Dayton SIG270s for LCR setup, and the mains will also have the SIG SS15 sub at the bottom built into the box. These will all be fully active via Hypex FA253, with separate plate amp for the sub of course.

The mains are going to be beastly...

 

[Chrispy]

Curious, why would you want to put subs in the speaker boxes?

 

[PGansz]

Curious, why would you want to put subs in the speaker boxes?

Continuity, less stuff on the floor, looks better, and active so there's less stuff on the center console.

Edit: I'm also toying with the idea of using two 10in SIG subs in the center channel, wired in series in the voice coils, but in parallel together, and crossing the mid to the subs at about 200ish hz. This in in pursuit of a full range center channel which I find to be extremely important in multi-channel listening via Dolby Neural and Virtual playback.

 

[Chrispy]

Continuity, less stuff on the floor, looks better, and active so there's less stuff on the center console.

Edit: I'm also toying with the idea of using two 10in SIG subs in the center channel, wired in series in the voice coils, but in parallel together, and crossing the mid to the subs at about 200ish hz. This in in pursuit of a full range center channel which I find to be extremely important in multi-channel listening via Dolby Neural and Virtual playback.

Meh, just often puts the subs in the wrong positions let alone more aesthetically pleasing. Just how large are your speakers?

 

[PGansz]

Meh, just often puts the subs in the wrong positions let alone more aesthetically pleasing. Just how large are your speakers?

Currently looking at 17.5 x 51.5 x 18.5 (WxHxD). If I use 12in subs they'll be 15 x 50 x 17.5.

 

[Chrispy]

Currently looking at 17.5 x 51.5 x 18.5 (WxHxD). If I use 12in subs they'll be 15 x 50 x 17.5.

Is the "sub" sealed off from other drivers in the speaker? What volume is provided? Sealed? Ported?

 

[PGansz]

Is the "sub" sealed off from other drivers in the speaker? What volume is provided? Sealed? Ported?

Yes. 2.6cuft including magnet system. Sealed.

 

[Chrispy]

Yes. 2.6cuft including magnet system. Sealed.

What parameters did you model for?

 

[Flaesh]

8HX150

I bought a pair a long time ago at a big discount. As far as I remember, the woofer and tweeter barely overlap. They are sitting around unused. On audiophile music with vocals and a few strings they sounded not bad, but I rarely listen to that kind of music.

SB bc they don't give xmax data

??.. For example:

 

[PGansz]

SB Acoustics has a new product, but it doesn't appear to be sensitive enough/have enough power handling. But for small and medium size rooms it looks solid. https://sbacoustics.com/product/sb15bac30-8-coax/