DIY Speaker measurement

[CauliflowerEars]

A. MIC:

The differences between a cheap calibrated mic and a super expensive one only start to show when noise and distortion need to be really low.

Thank you for the great input!
1. My main goal is to measure and treat my room - from my understanding, an uncalibrated mic will still show the peaks and dips that would need to be addressed. The room treatments themselves won't be super accurate anyway. For this purpose, wouldn't the Behringer do the job well enough? How would a calibrated mic be better for this?

Just be careful of trying to cheap out on tools and then end up spending more in the long term buying things twice or more.

2. Would a calibrated mic add some more measurement capabilities/more possible jobs/use cases to get done? To justify buying a more expensive mic, an idea is brewing in my head to either later rent it out and/or do measurements for others as a hobby, to meet other audio enthusiasts (maybe make some money to cover the equipment costs).
3. If I go with the renting out idea, is there an easy way to check, if the mic (and interface) is working properly? To make sure it's returned without any interior damage.
4. Would the Dayton Audio be the same as the Sonarworks? USD prices in Europe.
a. Dayton Audio EMM-6 = $86.25
b. Sonarworks XREF20 = $94.5

B. Interface:

As you spend more money the mic preamps will get better and quieter, the convertors get better and the very low frequencies will tend to be more accurate. For in room measurements this will be hard to notice.

1. This M-Audio M-track SOLO seems to be a competition for the Behringer interfaces. Do you think it'd be good?

M-Audio M-Track Solo USB Audio Interface

2-in/2-out USB Audio Interface with 1 Combo Input, 1 Instrument Input, Microphone Preamp, Phantom Power, USB Bus Power, and Bundled Software

www.sweetwater.com

I use my motu m4 as a dac a lot of times.

I would highly recommend the motu m4. It is sort of a swiss army knife for getting audio into and out of computers, plus it has really nice meters (not just a clipping indicator.) It can drive largish headphones, the DAC and ADC are both great, and it has low latency.

It seamlessly controls my powered monitors, my microphones which I used to use for videoconferencing, my headphones and even some midi stuff.

2. Well, in terms of SINAD, Topping E50 is 121, Motu M4 111.
a. Main use case: hi-fi listening. I've heard about 20-30% improvement with E50 over E30 II, so the Motu M4 might be a downgrade.
b. Since I have the speakers, I also don't need the headphone amp.
c. I don't produce music, so apart from the measurements, I guess there is no real benefit of the Motu M4 over a budget M-Audio M-Track SOLO, yes?

 

[fluid]

Thank you for the great input!

You are welcome

1. My main goal is to measure and treat my room - from my understanding, an uncalibrated mic will still show the peaks and dips that would need to be addressed. The room treatments themselves won't be super accurate anyway. For this purpose, wouldn't the Behringer do the job well enough? How would a calibrated mic be better for this?

An uncalibrated mic can show you relative differences. A calibrated mic will show you what you have without guessing.

2. Would a calibrated mic add some more measurement capabilities/more possible jobs/use cases to get done? To justify buying a more expensive mic, an idea is brewing in my head to either later rent it out and/or do measurements for others as a hobby, to meet other audio enthusiasts (maybe make some money to cover the equipment costs).

Absolutely, with a calibrated analogue mic and half decent interface most acoustic measurement tasks can be completed. I have no idea about the feasibility or market for renting it out.

3. If I go with the renting out idea, is there an easy way to check, if the mic (and interface) is working properly? To make sure it's returned without any interior damage.

Running a measurement of a known speaker in a known position and comparing it to a reference would be a simple way. For me $200 is a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of the money I have spent on audio related items so I would keep it safe at home for me only

4. Would the Dayton Audio be the same as the Sonarworks? USD prices in Europe.
a. Dayton Audio EMM-6 = $86.25
b. Sonarworks XREF20 = $94.5

In theory yes, but the calibration files of some of the Dayton mikes have been very suspect. The Sonarworks feels quite premium in hand.

B. Interface:

1. This M-Audio M-track SOLO seems to be a competition for the Behringer interfaces. Do you think it'd be good?

M-Audio M-Track Solo USB Audio Interface

2-in/2-out USB Audio Interface with 1 Combo Input, 1 Instrument Input, Microphone Preamp, Phantom Power, USB Bus Power, and Bundled Software

www.sweetwater.com

I would pick the UMC202HD of the cheap interfaces. All the solo style ones have instrument inputs as the second input which may or may not work as well as a true line in for loopback and other tasks. The 202HD has quite good mic preamps for the price and the 192Khz sampling frequency can be useful if you want to examine the whole of the audible range without any rolloff intruding.

2. Well, in terms of SINAD, Topping E50 is 121, Motu M4 111.
a. Main use case: hi-fi listening. I've heard about 20-30% improvement with E50 over E30 II, so the Motu M4 might be a downgrade.
b. Since I have the speakers, I also don't need the headphone amp.
c. I don't produce music, so apart from the measurements, I guess there is no real benefit of the Motu M4 over a budget M-Audio M-Track SOLO, yes?

Remember the mic preamps will generally make the SINAD worse and any interface is worse than a pure DAC when both conversions are included.

Room measurements are noisy in themselves, there is no need to play the SINAD race with a measurement interface unless you are trying to measure other low noise and distortion devices. The UMC202HD is more than good enough.

If you wanted to use the interface as part of an active multiway speaker then things might be slightly different.

 

[CauliflowerEars]

Absolutely, with a calibrated analogue mic and half decent interface most acoustic measurement tasks can be completed.

Would you be able to name some use cases/measurements that a calibrated mic will allow that the Behringer won't? Curious, how much more useful it can be ...

For me $200 is a drop in the ocean compared to the rest of the money I have spent on audio related items so I would keep it safe at home for me only

Well, I can only imagine using the mic in 2 situations: to measure the room, then to measure the treatments. Unless there are more useful use cases ...
It just feels a bit odd to spend $200 on sth I might be only using for a month or so ...

I would pick the UMC202HD of the cheap interfaces. All the solo style ones have instrument inputs as the second input which may or may not work as well as a true line in for loopback and other tasks. The 202HD has quite good mic preamps for the price and the 192Khz sampling frequency can be useful if you want to examine the whole of the audible range without any rolloff intruding.

Well, the UMC202HD is double the price of the M-track SOLO. Also, apparently going above 48khz doesn't bring much ...so, if the loopback works, then my guess is that the SOLO would be enough? https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/yp51rp

If you wanted to use the interface as part of an active multiway speaker then things might be slightly different.

Do you mean that the Motu M4 might be a good solution also as part of a listening system? I have passive speakers + amp.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Would you be able to name some use cases/measurements that a calibrated mic will allow that the Behringer won't? Curious, how much more useful it can be ...

Well, I can only imagine using the mic in 2 situations: to measure the room, then to measure the treatments. Unless there are more useful use cases ...
It just feels a bit odd to spend $200 on sth I might be only using for a month or so ...

Well, the UMC202HD is double the price of the M-track SOLO. Also, apparently going above 48khz doesn't bring much ...so, if the loopback works, then my guess is that the SOLO would be enough? https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/yp51rp
Do you mean that the Motu M4 might be a good solution also as part of a listening system? I have passive speakers + amp.

The motu m4 is a great device for a listening system. If you can actually hear the difference between 111db sinad 120db sinad...I'd be very impressed. Especially since your amp that you're using is probably below 100db sinad and your speakers distortion definitely is.

 

[617]

Sinad is not a perceptual measure. It does not matter. Having detailed meters does matter. Having separate volume controls for monitors and headphones does matter. Low latency matters as well.

 

[617]

Especially since cd quality audio has at most 96db of dynamic range and you have 30db of background noise in your room.

The motu m4 is a great device for a listening system. If you can actually hear the difference between 111db sinad 120db sinad...I'd be very impressed. Especially since your amp that you're using is probably below 100db sinad and your speakers distortion definitely is.

 

[fluid]

Would you be able to name some use cases/measurements that a calibrated mic will allow that the Behringer won't? Curious, how much more useful it can be ...

Anytime you want to know what the frequency response is, which to me is every time.

Well, I can only imagine using the mic in 2 situations: to measure the room, then to measure the treatments. Unless there are more useful use cases ...
It just feels a bit odd to spend $200 on sth I might be only using for a month or so ...

There are many more use cases but will they apply to you? I don't know. Anyone can benefit from measuring their system in room and using that information to improve it, but not everyone wants to do that.

Well, the UMC202HD is double the price of the M-track SOLO. Also, apparently going above 48khz doesn't bring much ...so, if the loopback works, then my guess is that the SOLO would be enough? https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/yp51rp

True but still less than $100 USD which I see as a very low price for the capabilities it offers. There is actually no need for a loopback for in room measurements. It is only for convenience by using a real time method that it becomes a requirement. There are non real time alternatives for any in room measurement. In any device there is a lower limit where going below it starts to hurt performance more than the cost saving is worth. There is value in a measurement system being more capable than the devices it is measuring in order to properly characterize them. That is why a higher sampling rate is useful, not because of any debate over the audibility of it on source material. But I am sure than for basic in room measurements the M-SOLO will get the job done if an extra $50 is too much to spend or the extra features or performance of the others seem unnecessary.

Do you mean that the Motu M4 might be a good solution also as part of a listening system? I have passive speakers + amp.

Not the M4 specifically as I have no experience with it, but to me there are differences in the playback quality of interfaces that become more important when they are used for that purpose as well as measuring.