Killingbeans
Major Contributor
That's why he said 'Imagine'
He was trying to make i clear that cables work more like two identical bottles of Chardonanny with the only difference being the fanciness of their label.
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DIY speaker cables with Neotech OCC solid core wire
- Thread starter Rockness
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That's why he said 'Imagine'
He was trying to make i clear that cables work more like two identical bottles of Chardonanny with the only difference being the fanciness of their label.
Speedskater
Major Contributor
Yet when we ask these audiophiles to demonstrate that they can hear differences that can't be measured, they either have an excuse for not doing the demonstration or fail to hear a difference.
Not that the audiophiles that make these claims seldom if ever do ears only auditions.
Tom C
Major Contributor
If he shows up only to reactivate a controversial necro thread, I conclude it is attention seeking behavior.
Well that comparison made no sense at all. Two different wine types are two different products entirely. An audio signal coming out of a source is a single ‘product’ being processed by many pieces of equipment in a chain that hopefully don’t distort or change that ‘product’ significantly. Logic is not your strong point buddy. Nor analogies.
DonR
Major Contributor
Einstein did not say that and no one of seriousness attributes that to him. It was a quote by sociologist William Bruce Cameron about using enumeration in social studies. Most of the differences that you think you hear are mirages in your mind and this can easily be shown through a double-blind test. The same science that can send a telescope millions of miles into space and peer into the edges of the universe can also be used to measure audio equipment and decide if any differences are audible.
Your taste buds and ears are two different things although neither are particularly remarkable compared to other animals or our ability to measure these things. I despise Chardonnay but am partial to a Pinot Grigio over ice on a hot day. This analogy is more about the music content than about the reproduction equipment.
Roland68
Major Contributor
So OCC cables sound different than OFC cables? That's really interesting.
OCC is just a process that is available to everyone, really every manufacturer in the world. The Ohno continuous casting process is now decades old and is used for many metals and alloys.
Almost all OFC cables are made this way and the proportion of audio cables is less than 1%. Pure 100% OFC copper is the industry standard anyway, you can only sell anything else in the consumer sector.
In reality, many audio cables are inferior products. Any genuine and reputable manufacturer can provide lab reports on their metals, otherwise they would have no control over their production processes. But there are no laboratory reports for HiFi OCC cables, what are the reasons for this?
It would also be stupid if the manufacturer of such an expensive cable said "Lapp" on the test report...
And monocrystalline cables are just a myth at the moment, as only 5 years ago scientists were able to produce a palm-sized wafer-thin foil, but only under laboratory conditions. We are still a long way from an industrial production of monocrystalline copper, regardless of whether it is foil or cable.
Speedskater
Major Contributor
Unless you know the exact length and the exact diameter of each cable, there is no meter that can measure the electrical difference between the 'OCC' and the 'OCF' cable.
MAB
Major Contributor
I think your beef is with Ohm, not ASR.
A chemist can test for the difference between wine types, better than you can. Says nothing about what you like or prefer. But, if asked to test for a wine that taste the same as your preference, they can (and will) provide you with the same taste you prefer.
You shouldn't have added it, since it actually undermines. First, Einstein didn't say this. And the person who did was commenting on the vagaries of social studies, and making the opposite point you were trying to make.
audiofooled
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Perhaps when listening for the audible differences in cables, one's choice of wine may affect the results, so let's try that. Can't do no harm, I suppose
Much of the taste profile of a wine, is down to the process used... is it fermented to dry, or some sweetness left in there, is the wine left on the lees (ie the pressed grape skins left on the wine after squeezing for a period of time) - or put into stainless steel vats for a very "clean" taste - and then is it further aged in oak (or other wood), or kept in stainless steel...
Once you take these into account, there are quite a few different grape types that can be made to taste close enough to each other than most people cannot differentiate in a blind tasting.
Once the labels are shown of course, then the biases kick in, and preferences abound!!
One example - the Pinot Gris grape type, also known as Pinot Grigio (french / italian) - same grape, treated differently in the French vs the Italian style... The Alsatian French Pinot Gris, keeps a touch of sweetness in the mix, which also leads to an ability to age well, and to develop additional aging flavours - one of my favourite styles (and remarkably similar in many ways to good quality rieslings, including the ability to age well - that touch of remaining sugar does wonders)
The Italian wines using the same grape, ferment it to a flinty dryness - many people love Pinot Grigio - I am NOT one of them.
Yet they are the same grape.
Chardonay has the same things going on - divorced from the constraints of regional european traditions - it is an anything goes environment in the New World(s) .... I am not a fan of many Chardonnays, but there are some I have liked - and it is down to the way they are fermented and aged.
Your analogy fails in audio as it fails in wine tasting.
I refer you to this very famous blind wine tasting, and its unexpected outcome - Chardonnays feature prominently!
Judgment of Paris (wine) - Wikipedia
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