DIY AVR with PC?

[Plcamp]

Is the SINAD worth the inconvenience and the cost though?

That’s a good question…I have tried ext amp direct from AVR pre-outs, and you can get good results but watch the pre-out zero db voltage might be lower than 2v. In my case it isn’t 2v in default state but you can use internal dsp to boost it.

In any case, my AVR pre out is quite noticeably noisier than an external DAC.

What I really want is a Minidsp flex 2x8. That product doesn’t exist though.

 

[dwkdnvr]

I emailed the folks at Okto, and they're production limited on the DAC8, unfortunately. Looks like a Motu mk5 might have to do...

Thanks for the pointers. I'll check them out at my leisure.

Virtually all MOTU interfaces have been out of stock/unavailable for ages. I still haven't seen any concrete indication on when (or even IF) they'll be available again.

 

[kenshone]

Would something like this work instead of an mk5? (could use stereo dacs downstream)

RME Digiface USB USB Digital Audio Interface with 4 Optical Inputs/Outputs and Bus Power, 32-in/32-out, 24-bit/192kHz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZAFM3VE/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_F9VRF1FNX52YYV0TJM7V

 

[MCH]

Virtually all MOTU interfaces have been out of stock/unavailable for ages. I still haven't seen any concrete indication on when (or even IF) they'll be available again.

Where are you guys based? Thomman has had plenty of them available since at least the couple of months ive been watching them. But it is true that right now the mk5 says 2-3 weeks

 

[mdsimon2]

I haven't seen an in stock Mk5 since last year. There are other available options from MOTU in the US although the Mk5 is the one of the only 8+ channel MOTU interfaces that is truly Linux compatible (although that doesn't seem like it matters to the OP).

MOTU 828ES is available but $300 more than the Mk5. In general any MOTU interface with an ESS Sabre DAC should be pretty good but that does mean you will want to avoid things like the 828/896 Mk3 Hybrids as they are much older products with significantly worse performance.

RME Digiface or a miniDSP U-DIO8 would work if you want to use multiple stereo DACs but that gets kind of messy.

If you are OK with 44.1/48 kHz ADAT from a miniDSP USBstreamer to a standalone ADAT interface is a good option for 8 channels.

So lot's of different options, just depends on what you prioritize.

Michael

 

[mkt]

And active speakers could be a fun option too.

 

[dwkdnvr]

Yes, I should have been a bit more specific. The Ultralite Mk5 and most if not all of the AVB line have been unavailable from what I can tell, although I haven't been constantly monitoring the supply daily/weekly. The M2/M4 and the older 828 line have some availability.
I was focused on the Mk5 due to thinking I 'needed' to run it under Linux. I recently got a new Mac Studio though, and so if I can re-think my approach to use the Mac, I may have additional options.

 

[ppataki]

Would something like this work instead of an mk5? (could use stereo dacs downstream)

RME Digiface USB USB Digital Audio Interface with 4 Optical Inputs/Outputs and Bus Power, 32-in/32-out, 24-bit/192kHz https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZAFM3VE/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_F9VRF1FNX52YYV0TJM7V

I tried this 2 years ago just for fun
It does work and it gives you even more flexibility since there are plenty of stereo DACs to choose from
I have tested it with 44.1-192kHz files, just had to play with RME's software routing

 

[dualazmak]

Hello OP @kenshone and friends,

Although quite belated, I just noticed this interesting thread.

For your reference, I assume my multichannel multi-driver multi-way multi-amplifier audio project (sorry, audio only) would be of your interest.

You can find my latest system setup here on my project thread.

Also please find here and here the Hyperlink Index for my project thread.

Just for your info, we are currently having interesting discussions on utilization of MOTU 828es as multichannel DAC (up to 14-CH analog outputs!) in this post and thereafter on my project thread.

 

[FeddyLost]

Is the SINAD worth the inconvenience and the cost though?

These are the questions people should ask themselves first i think.

I've tried (and still trying) to find something decent (comparable with pro interfaces in terms of declared performance) with capability of at least 2.2, balanced analog outputs and some setup options.
Looks like Anthem STR Pre is the best solution, and you'll need some streamer/source device to feed digital in (because otherwise you'll have +1 ADC)
If we need some HDMI connectivity, we are going to cosmic prices even with some "mid-fi" brands like NAD because multi-sub option is relatively new and these devices are expensive even second hand.
And if AVR/digital preamp is broken, you will lose everything. It's not like PC, when you go to the store and buy new PSU/RAM ...

The only good side of AVR/processor is convenience and usability. Sometimes it's crucial.

RME Digiface or a miniDSP U-DIO8 would work if you want to use multiple stereo DACs but that gets kind of messy.

IMO multiple stereo DACs is a so-so solution, until you can't apply single master clock for all of them.

 

[mdsimon2]

IMO multiple stereo DACs is a so-so solution, until you can't apply single master clock for all of them.

The products I mentioned provide synchronized digital outputs based on a single master clock.

Michael

 

[FeddyLost]

The products I mentioned provide synchronized digital outputs based on a single master clock.

I meant that whole signal chain down to analog outs should be synchronized.
These products don't have master clock out and not much consumer stereo DACs support master clock input.
That's why I'd prefer single mulichannel DA interface to the cluster of stereo units with comparable channel price.

 

[dualazmak]

I meant that whole signal chain down to analog outs should be synchronized.
These products don't have master clock out and not much consumer stereo DACs support master clock input.
That's why I'd prefer single mulichannel DA interface to the cluster of stereo units with comparable channel price.

It looks you have some misunderstandings at least on OKTO DAC8PRO. This multichannel (up to sync 8-Ch) DAC unit has single ES9028pro DAC processor in it, of course regulated by one precision clock generator chip, and processes 8-Ch DA conversions in perfect sync manner.

In case if you would be also interested in absolute total delay (latency) of the whole sound signal, and also relative delays i.e. time alignments of actual room sound of all the SP drivers, you would please refer to my posts on my project thread;

- Precision measurement and adjustment of time alignment for speaker (SP) units: Part-1_ Precision pulse wave matching method: #493
- Precision measurement and adjustment of time alignment for speaker (SP) units: Part-2_ Energy peak matching method: #494
- Precision measurement and adjustment of time alignment for speaker (SP) units: Part-3_ Precision single sine wave matching method in 0.1 msec accuracy: #504, #507
- Perfect (0.1 msec precision) time alignment of all the SP drivers greatly contributes to amazing disappearance of SPs, tightness and cleanliness of the sound, and superior 3D sound stage: #520

 

[mdsimon2]

I meant that whole signal chain down to analog outs should be synchronized.
These products don't have master clock out and not much consumer stereo DACs support master clock input.
That's why I'd prefer single mulichannel DA interface to the cluster of stereo units with comparable channel price.

The stereo DACs will be sync'd by the recovered SPDIF / AES clock. I've measured the analog outputs of DACs from common SPDIF sources and they are sync'd.

I agree that I prefer a single interface as a more elegant solution but the U-DIO8 and digiface are fine solutions if you want to use stereo DACs.

Michael

 

[FeddyLost]

I've measured the analog outputs of DACs from common SPDIF sources and they are sync'd.

Unfortunately we can't predict how good it will work with all the DAC models available in the world.
I agree that if you have similar stereo DACs with similar settings (if they have), then most probably they will be synchronized, especially in case of AES input.
But I'd not call it universal solution just to be safe.

 

[mdsimon2]

Unfortunately we can't predict how good it will work with all the DAC models available in the world.
I agree that if you have similar stereo DACs with similar settings (if they have), then most probably they will be synchronized, especially in case of AES input.
But I'd not call it universal solution just to be safe.

AES and SPDIF input will be no different. The only way I see a potential issue is if a DAC has a FIFO buffer with variable latency but that will be few and far between.

Have you actually tried this with DACs where they did not remain in sync? Or are you just spreading FUD?

You can even use different DACs if you correct the delay differences between DACs. To add some actual data to this discussion see this post -> https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...one-multichannel-dac.25182/page-2#post-861362.

Michael

 

[sarumbear]

How would you turn a PC into a basic AVR?

You can’t, as most modern, especially the 3D codecs are not available on the platform. There’s also, to my knowledge, no an HDMI switching board for the PC platforms either.

 

[sarumbear]

- use a multichannel DAC (Okto DAC8 Pro or any other professional studio DACs e.g. MOTU)
- use Jriver Media Center 29 to decode DTS-HD and Dolby signals and send the multichannel PCM signal to the DAC
- connect a multichannel power amp (or multiple 2-channel power amps) to the DAC

This is what I have been doing for 15 years and it works like a charm, not to mention that you can have far superior sound quality vs. using an AVR (just check their measurements here)

How do you decode 3D codecs and how do you switch HDMI?