So if we get a result like -30, does this mean that we won't really benefit from DACs that go much lower in dynamic range?
After watching a portion of the video: Does this mean that you could have a DAC that performs relatively poorly in Amir's SINAD measurements, but by "sheer luck" happens to have its noise in frequencies that don't stand out to our hearing?
as opposed to hoping some DAC designer is able to put the noise only in frequencies where it doesn't matter.
"Noise" may well be at less sensitive frequencies and not by sheer luck... noise shaping. (Dither can also be spectrally non-flat.)
That's fundamentally how delta-sigma DAC's work.
View attachment 50307
Source: Texas Instruments.
To quote from the linked page:
"Any DAC will produce noise that extends well above audio frequencies, and this effect is strongest in delta-sigma DACs. These converters use noise-shaping techniques to improve in-band signal-to-noise ratio (SNR) performance at the expense of generating increased out-of-band noise."
The page then discusses the need to filter "out-of-band" noise for automotive application regulatory compliance.
In the "multi-bit" world, even the first CD player from Philips used noise-shaping. So, you'd be stuck with off-the-wall "No Oversampling" (NOS) "multi-bit" designs. (=POOR measured performance.)
Anyway, thanks for posting this video and for the additional information. I am still learning about this and reading all I can, and I greatly appreciate it.
Wait a minute - is the j_j here on ASR the same as James D. Johnston in the video? I didn't put that together....
One of his threads sent me down a rabbit hole to learn more about dithering. I read the excellent master's thesis by Cameron Nicklaus Christou that someone posted here. While I can't follow all of the math, he really does a great job of explaining what is happening.
Indeed he is.
Have you a link, please?
Wait a minute - is the j_j here on ASR the same as James D. Johnston in the video? I didn't put that together....
One of his threads sent me down a rabbit hole to learn more about dithering. I read the excellent master's thesis by Cameron Nicklaus Christou that someone posted here. While I can't follow all of the math, he really does a great job of explaining what is happening.
The irony of dither is that it's been a known thing for many, many years, and the need for linearization is very, very old, and can be implied from Shannon's original paper.
"Noise" may well be at less sensitive frequencies and not by sheer luck... noise shaping. (Dither can also be spectrally non-flat.)
That's fundamentally how delta-sigma DAC's work.
Although there is no recording of the talk that I know of, this slide deck might help out:
http://www.aes-media.org/sections/pnw/ppt/jj/adc.ppt
I took the test with a cheap Fiio dac/amp dock with Senn HD800 headphones. The two tone test was easier than the less than pristine recordings. (The Chapman recording sounded like crap compared to Amazon Prime Music HD streaming, I thought.) I scored better when I turned the volume up, but that also made the test more unpleasant. Using 2 tone, at my typical workday listening vols, amp at about 10 o clock, I could only get to about -18db. When I turned the amp to 1 o'clock I could test to about -33db. But my ears didn't like the nasty sounds and got fatigued. I suspect if I kept turning up the volume to more painful levels, I could have scored even better. But my ears are ringing and I don't want to donate my hearing to this test.
Does this mean that I don't need to worry about SINAD scores any more, as just about any product will surpass my acuity?
There is another one with closing date: APRIL 30, 2020.Ran into this interesting listening test by Klippel with regards to how much distortion you can hear. [...]