Distortion down to -300 dB, what exactly does that mean physically?

[mansr]

Are you again spouting hoax articles?

No, hoaxes are intentionally ridiculous.

 

[DonH56]

I looked. Wish I had not. It is amazing the effort people put into absolute b.s. This is an example:

The first thing to note in this experiment is the very substantial improvement in the height measurements for the initial FLAC and WAV files (Conversion 0), something on the order of 23” for FLAC and 15” for WAV. All of these height differences were distinctly audible and significant in our systems. When one compares the maximum WAV and FLAC differential height improvements between JRMC v.15 (see Figure 1) and v.19, they turn out to be approximately equal, 15” and 23”. However, the most significant finding from this experiment is that with MEM PB, using JRMC v.19 (or v.20), the hyperbolic decline in WAV height measurements as a function of number of conversions is eliminated completely. While the overall height reproduction of the FLAC series has been improved significantly, the rate of vertical height decline is not lessened and in fact appears to be greater than what we measure without MEM PB.

My interpretation: "Nothing to say, but I can say it oh so well for oh so long!" Or, "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, blind them with BS"...

 

[Geert]

When using blind tests in pharmaceutical research, do they also quantify the effect of people singing and dancing when they start to feel better?

By definition, people who go to the trouble of running such tests and those volunteering as listeners may be attracted to the more analytical approach. For whatever reason, you never hear during the course of these tests that a certain number of subjects began to involuntarily sing along or move their bodies because they get so emotionally involved in the music. Most audiophiles have experienced this kind of response to some major improvement in their audio systems. But how does double blind testing measure this very real effect?

 

[SIY]

"But how does double blind testing measure this very real effect? "

Trivially, if that's what you design the experiment to measure. I am honestly Poe's Law baffled- are they really this dumb or are they really this dishonest?

 

[j_j]

Sorry Sir j.j, I think you meant me if I am not mistaken. I responded to Geert who asked me the question and happy to repeat my answer;

j.j can state he has true knowledge and so can Rob Watts.

The mathematics is not that complex. The evidence is in hand. Stop pretending.

 

[j_j]

You are in no position to give an objective way.
You can claim you are objective but you're just, like the rest of us, an individual with an opinion, are you not?

Look, a relativist!

Physics does not care what silly things you believe. Neither does mathematics.

 

[j_j]

yes....

mr Watts doesn't claim to hear -300dB or -350dB though. He claims that he could hear differences between 2 different filters where the measurable differences for distortion were in that area.

WHAT is down 300dB?

I can generate two filters with EXACTLY the same amplitude response for which one is audibly different than the other. There being "amplitude response", not "actual filter response" as a defective measure.

The easiest way to do this is simple, first make a good filter. Then put a long-period schroder allpass section before/after that. Zero amplitude difference. The phase, however, will be very, very different. This can trivially be made audible.

 

[j_j]

As I'm still not corrected by j-j till now;
Serious, Can you please explain to me why Rob Watts is fundamentally wrong ?

Your abject babble has been long since fully debunked. You are simply pretending otherwise. Alternatively, you lack the ability to comprehend, or perhaps you are a malicious actor trying to debase science.

Which is it?

 

[j_j]

"But how does double blind testing measure this very real effect? "

Trivially, if that's what you design the experiment to measure. I am honestly Poe's Law baffled- are they really this dumb or are they really this dishonest?

Yes.

 

[AdamG]

Your abject babble has been long since fully debunked. You are simply pretending otherwise. Alternatively, you lack the ability to comprehend, or perhaps you are a malicious actor trying to debase science.

Which is it?

Troll has been eradicated. Just had to let him stretch his own neck. You know “give a man a rope” saying…

 

[Spkrdctr]

It is not a matter of opinion. It is a matter of stablished audio research/science that we used controlled, blind tests to establish audibility. I have also taken countless blind tests on my own and know that it doesn't have to be stressful at all. What is the stress if no one is looking over your shoulder at home?

I also want to reply to this issue. I agree 100% there is no or very little stress in a blind test. Now remember all you ASR peeps. I'm talking about listener blind tests for people, NOT product improvement blind tests which are totally different. As I have said and others on here have also said and witnessed, for a listener listening to ANY KIND OR TYPE of music, there is no stress. Either you hear some kind of difference, ANY kind or not. Done. Simple. NO one has EVER been able to pass a blind test for any kind of difference on interconnects, amps, power wires and speaker wires UNLESS they are broken or made so poorly they may as well be broken. Even Amir who can pass tests with a snippet of sound with his training, readily admits that if he was listening to music, it would be impossible to hear any difference. So, spending big bucks on "better" equipment that sounds as good as mid fi, IMHO is a waste of money. People can waste it, but many other less wealthy can't afford to and just want the best sound for a reasonable cost. In fact you can get fantastic sound for a reasonable cost. Amir finds hidden gems of speakers from time to time. Then if set up properly I can EASILY make a pair of $500 bookshelf speakers outshine a $4000 pair of bookshelf speakers.

Now pride of ownership and cosmetic looks are an entirely different subject..........

 

[Spkrdctr]

There's also plenty of info on alien abductions with anal probing, and not coincidentally with the same level of evidence.

I would think that if you go on a first date with any woman and she said aliens anally probed her. She might be telling you something. Just a word to the wise!

 

[Doodski]

Then if set up properly I can EASILY make a pair of $500 bookshelf speakers outshine a $4000 pair of bookshelf speakers.

How can you do that? That's a pretty vivid claim.

 

[Chester]

Troll has been eradicated. Just had to let him stretch his own neck. You know “give a man a rope” saying…

Maybe I’m missing something, and opinions aside, I personally thought Peterzuid conducted himself in quite a reasonable manner? While some of the ‘Audio Luminary’ came across fairly aggressive and with a touch of arrogance.


If @amirm considers someone a luminary, I’m none the wiser, but I trust his judgement. Even so, I don’t think that should give that person the right to communicate in an inappropriate manner. Nor should it mean anyone who engages them in reasonably polite debate should be considered a troll and ‘eradicated’. This approach only pushes us further into the margins, which is a shame as we have potential to disrupt this industry in a truly positive way.

Maybe this post will result in a ban for me….if so, then perhaps all the better, to be honest.

 

[Spkrdctr]

How can you do that? That's a pretty vivid claim.

I re-read that post. Thank you for making me clear that up. I meant to say a properly set up pair of $500 speakers will sound MUCH better than improperly set up $4000 or $10,000 speakers. As a guess I would imagine 90% of all audio system owners have little to no set up at all. Set up is everything, set it up position wise, then EQ it and it will sound so much better than a non-set up pair and not Equalized. Amir says this on many of his tests, that after using some EQ the sound is greatly improved. Placement first then EQ and then room correction if available. Room treatments as can be afforded. Notice nothing in this about wires, amps, interconnects, power cable, etc. The common items people waste big bucks on.

 

[mansr]

are they really this dumb or are they really this dishonest?

I'm going with both.

 

[audio2design]

"But how does double blind testing measure this very real effect? "

Trivially, if that's what you design the experiment to measure. I am honestly Poe's Law baffled- are they really this dumb or are they really this dishonest?

They are really that dumb and with an oversized ego they never self correct.

 

[audio2design]

Maybe I’m missing something, and opinions aside, I personally thought Peterzuid conducted himself in quite a reasonable manner? While some of the ‘Audio Luminary’ came across fairly aggressive and with a touch of arrogance.

PEz repeatedly crossed the line from ignorance to willful ignorance. He had no desire to learn. He basically behaved like a sycophant spewing Rob Watts with no understanding of the topic but worse no desire to learn. I would not have banned him unless he polluted other threads.

 

[AdamG]

Maybe I’m missing something, and opinions aside, I personally thought Peterzuid conducted himself in quite a reasonable manner? While some of the ‘Audio Luminary’ came across fairly aggressive and with a touch of arrogance.


If @amirm considers someone a luminary, I’m none the wiser, but I trust his judgement. Even so, I don’t think that should give that person the right to communicate in an inappropriate manner. Nor should it mean anyone who engages them in reasonably polite debate should be considered a troll and ‘eradicated’. This approach only pushes us further into the margins, which is a shame as we have potential to disrupt this industry in a truly positive way.

Maybe this post will result in a ban for me….if so, then perhaps all the better, to be honest.

Go back a few pages and read his posts. He was not engaging in honest let’s share knowledge and learn enthusiasm. He was trolling, pure and simple. As for the behavior of Senior Members, they have earned the right to become arrogant when they know they are being trolled in their own house. I hope you stay long enough to discover that yourself. Because of what ASR does, calling out the over abundance of BS snake oil products that exist, we draw lots of Trolls who come here just to cause disruption and mayhem. Lots and lots of people who have paid big bucks for crap don’t like being told they bought crap. For some it gets personal. My job is to smoke these bad actors out. That is precisely what I did. Some might even accuse me of giving them too many benefits of the doubt. Or to stick with the analogy, too much rope.

 

[richard12511]

Conclusion; perfect reconstruction is not possible as delay on playback cannot be unlimited
Conclusion: perfect recontruction is not possible as it is impossible to realize a delta T = 0 between samples

It doesn't need to be perfect. It just needs to be audibly perfect. Given that the $9 Apple dongle is still audibly perfect after 30,000 views, it seems that audible perfection is rather easy to achieve. I'm sure Rob Watts knows this, but how could he sell thousand dollar + DACs if he admitted that they can't possibly sound any better than a $9 DAC?