Directivity of musical instruments

[miha]

For anybody interested in recording, check out this new data on the sound directivity of musical instruments from Technische Universität Berlin and AFMG.

https://www.afmg.eu/en/technische-universitat-berlin-and-afmg-publish-high-resolution-ease-gll-data-22-musical-instruments

The .gll files can be found here, under 'TU Berlin':

https://www.afmg.eu/en/ease-5-fe-loudspeaker-database

Preprint:

A Database with Directivities of Musical Instruments

We present a database of recordings and radiation patterns of individual notes for 41 modern and historical musical instruments, measured with a 32-channel spherical microphone array in anechoic conditions. In addition, directivities averaged in one-third octave bands have been calculated for...

arxiv.org

 

[rationaltime]

This is interesting for acoustic research.

It is worth noting audio recordings and live sound reinforcement usually
attempt to place the pickup or microphones in optimal position for
capturing the sound of the instrument. After mixing that is what the
musicians and audience hear. Feedback in live sound amplification is
an issue that would prevent microphone placement in sub optimal
locations. One exception is bluegrass bands that like the traditional
group gathering around a large diaphragm condenser mic. Those
can be a challenge to mix effectively, and frequently are not.

A quote from the paper:
"In a real recording situation, however, the instru-
ment being played by a musician is a moving sound
source. This can result in an angular displacement of
the instrument which can easily reach up to 47 ◦ when
played in a standing position and up to 36 ◦ when
played in a sitting position [34]. "

Amen to that.

 

[fineMen]

Amen to that.

That is why recorded sound has little to do with the original sound. It is an artform in itself. Audio recording, distributing and playback make up a new cultural communication channel. It is NOT the 'reproduction' of something, but something else, new following it's own rules.

But tell this the common audiophile who, for the sake of 'original sound' apraising his excellent system, fell into the 'classics'. Grand orchestra, all left 'natural' for the 'critical listening' at home for fun in ... confirming the superior stereo of his.

Om A Ra Pa Ca Na Dhih

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

I've been playing acoustic guitar since I was 15. I'm a bit older than that now. I was born during the Truman administration. I've listened to a lot of guitars played by other people as well as listening from behind my own. I've never heard a guitar recording that sounded quite like what I've heard. Some recordings come close but I can hear a difference. I assume this applies to other instruments too. I think some of the difference results from the personal preference of whoever is producing the recording and some of it from the limitations of microphones and other devices in the chain. Vocals are the same. l've heard people I know live through a mic as well as recorded. They always sound a bit different from unamplified.

 

[Bergante]

Well, it depends on what you want to achieve. When doing live concerts, for example, I tend to favor distant miking especially for winds.

My intent: I want the audience to hear an acoustic concert, with the real instrument sound and using the PA only for reinforcement. So, while the reinforcement corrects the excessive level mismatch between instruments (and compensates just a bit of high frequency attenuation due to distance) it still sounds natural.

Examples:

Yep, it`s me as FOH. The mix is rough though, don´t expect a finished work for release.

Lately I begun to add more distance to the piano microphones in a less reverberant room. Unfortunately there are no videos of those.

(It requires a somewhat aggressive graphic EQ, and it would be crazy in this venue that sounds like a hall of mirrors)

This one is a much smaller venue (hotel) and just an ambient recording from the audience point of view. Pure club sound I am
reinforcing the bass and the winds.

Microphones:

Drums, two Peluso CEMC-6 with cardiods and an Audio Technica boundary in front of the bass drum
Piano: Two AKG SE300B with CK-97 hypercardioid capsules
Sax: Sennheiser MD441
Double bass: CAD Equitek E100-2

For the cable fetishists lurking around, a cheap Thomann 16x4 snake, 30m long.

Mixers: Mackie Onyx 1640 at the small venue, Allen&Heath MixWizard3 16:4:2 at the big one.

 

[miha]

This is interesting for acoustic research.

It is worth noting audio recordings and live sound reinforcement usually
attempt to place the pickup or microphones in optimal position for
capturing the sound of the instrument. After mixing that is what the
musicians and audience hear. Feedback in live sound amplification is
an issue that would prevent microphone placement in sub optimal
locations. One exception is bluegrass bands that like the traditional
group gathering around a large diaphragm condenser mic. Those
can be a challenge to mix effectively, and frequently are not.

A quote from the paper:
"In a real recording situation, however, the instru-
ment being played by a musician is a moving sound
source. This can result in an angular displacement of
the instrument which can easily reach up to 47 ◦ when
played in a standing position and up to 36 ◦ when
played in a sitting position [34]. "

Amen to that.

So true! Instruments can move a lot. Foud that out the hard way when I first recorded violinists

 

[miha]

Well, it depends on what you want to achieve. When doing live concerts, for example, I tend to favor distant miking especially for winds.

My intent: I want the audience to hear an acoustic concert, with the real instrument sound and using the PA only for reinforcement. So, while the reinforcement corrects the excessive level mismatch between instruments (and compensates just a bit of high frequency attenuation due to distance) it still sounds natural.

Examples:

Yep, it`s me as FOH. The mix is rough though, don´t expect a finished work for release.

Lately I begun to add more distance to the piano microphones in a less reverberant room. Unfortunately there are no videos of those.

(It requires a somewhat aggressive graphic EQ, and it would be crazy in this venue that sounds like a hall of mirrors)

This one is a much smaller venue (hotel) and just an ambient recording from the audience point of view. Pure club sound I am
reinforcing the bass and the winds.

Microphones:

Drums, two Peluso CEMC-6 with cardiods and an Audio Technica boundary in front of the bass drum
Piano: Two AKG SE300B with CK-97 hypercardioid capsules
Sax: Sennheiser MD441
Double bass: CAD Equitek E100-2

For the cable fetishists lurking around, a cheap Thomann 16x4 snake, 30m long.

Mixers: Mackie Onyx 1640 at the small venue, Allen&Heath MixWizard3 16:4:2 at the big one.

Good job!
Your mic setup reminded me that I need to experiment more with boudry mics...

 

[DonnaJerrily]

Sounds like you've delved into some interesting acoustic research! It's fascinating how microphone placement plays a pivotal role in capturing the true essence of an instrument's sound.

 

[BR52]

Many years ago here in Gemany was an initiative to catch the sound of a concert from a listener position. Denon one point recording. They have some really impressive records. The German Denon site CEO was the initiator.

 

[fineMen]

Many years ago here in Gemany was an initiative to catch the sound of a concert from a listener position. Denon one point recording. They have some really impressive records. The German Denon site CEO was the initiator.

The CEO typically. It underlines the idea that a recording should resemble a real visit to the concert. It can't do. The latter is a myth reventilated by the industry every other day. I don't buy it. To record something is an artform that CEOs shall leave alone. Otherwise we better consult that science concerned with hearing aids, and again better drop the CEO because the of lack of ...

Once one digests the notion that a recording never can replicate some imaginated 'original', directivity is a non-issue.

 

[BenB]

It would be interesting to compare the results form AFMG to those from BYU:

Directivity | Spatial Audio Library | Brigham Young University

scholarsarchive.byu.edu

 

[fineMen]

It would be interesting to compare the results form AFMG to those from BYU:

Directivity | Spatial Audio Library | Brigham Young University

scholarsarchive.byu.edu

Thanks for the reminder to visit the link in the original posting. There you find, written by the same pesonnel, some discussion of the head related transfer function.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/2303.09966

This should make clear for every audiophile, why a recording with some microphones will never even resemble a real visit at the performance's site in time. Simply because the microphone doesn't have a head.

I personally think that a change of perspectives, namely on what a recording actually is, may be more beneficial than to discuss instruments' directivity. Or is there any valid theory why that should matter?