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Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms, Roxy Music, Prince coming to blu-ray Audio Dolby Atmos. Blu-ray: The New Ultimate Standard for Audiophiles?
- Thread starter Jean.Francois
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masterhw
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Dolby’s modern codecs are much more advanced than conveyed by simply dividing the bitrate by channel count (768kbps/11 channels ≈ 128kbps stereo).
Most of the channels have little activity, and EAC-3 is smart enough to allocate its finite bitrate where it matters most. EAC-3 is a contemporary of AAC and other second generation codecs anyway, much improved from basic AC-3 and MP3 (first generation codecs).
Yes lossless is still great when available, but it is a misnomer to assume EAC-3 works like each channel has a fixed bandwidth allocation. That would suck. I’ve been able to pass compressed audio tests before, but never for moderate bitrate EAC-3, it’s pretty good.
Ok, so still probably roughly equivalent to a 320kbps MP3 then? Still quite a difference from studio grade 48/24.
I have compared back to back Apple streams with BluRay audio files and... perhaps its my ears, but the difference is not always apparent. Perhaps if I had some training I might be able to hear something?
Is there a thread on here specifically for blu ray / spatial audio album releases?
Blu-ray audio has become my new focus as I have pretty much all the classic stuff I want on CD and the surround mix adds a new reason to listen again. I appreciate that Rhino in particular is putting the original stereo masters on the releases I have picked up so far so you get that in addition to a fun surround mix. Their Quadio line has been so good I have picked up everything from the current single album run and wish I had known when the Chicago and Doobie Brothers sets were available.
Better quality
EVERY SINGLE TIME!
tineared
Senior Member
Tonight I ordered The Best of the Doors on Atmos and No Jacket Required on BD, and was so desperate for more that I even ordered a Quadio BD version of Tres Hombres, and I rarely care for quadrophonic mixes where each instrument has it's own channel. It's also my understanding that the original source tapes were not "available"
But I can just about guarantee that I will find them to be a superior listening experience than listening to the cd.
Stereo is nice, I listen to it a lot, but the inclusion of a center channel only makes sense, both conceptually and in real world listening
But I can just about guarantee that I will find them to be a superior listening experience than listening to the cd.
Stereo is nice, I listen to it a lot, but the inclusion of a center channel only makes sense, both conceptually and in real world listening
I picked up Best of the Doors and Tres Hombres and found the stereo mixes to be great. For Tres Hombres it is the original version with the correct drums, not the awful redone stuff they did for the 80's CD release. The surround mixes on those are worth a listen though. Tres Hombres in quadraphonic was quite good. For clarity, the stereo mix on the blu-ray Best of the Doors is a new one by Bruce Botnick. It is very similar in dynamics to the 80's two CD release but is a different mix. I personally have no preference. Both are enjoyable and fairly similar.
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jeffaegrim
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It’s funny - atmos is proprietary bs that nobody asked for yet it is also the only reason music still gets mixed in multichannel to this day at all. In a sense, I am very thankful for headphone users and everyone who bought an atmos soundbar or similar gadget. They won’t experience „atmos“ - and neither will I - but, as Dr. Toole teaches us, multichannel will always be preferred to stereo, so in a way, atmos is a god sent, as it is the only reason there are tons of contemporary multichannel recordings out there. I don’t have any height channels, but I can listen to the 5.1 bed layers, and doing so is one of the most pleasurable ways imaginable to experience classic albums anew. They have MF Dooms MM..Food in multichannel. All NIN albums. RATM. OutKast. Amazing times.
Atmos - in spite of everything, I have to declare myself a fan on this basis alone. Some atmos mixes are bound to be meh, but most of the time it’s a clear improvement over the stereo release, imo.
Atmos - in spite of everything, I have to declare myself a fan on this basis alone. Some atmos mixes are bound to be meh, but most of the time it’s a clear improvement over the stereo release, imo.
Objectively Atmos on blu ray blows away the streaming audio versions. Streaming Atmos is lossy Dolby Digital + at 768 kbits/sec whereas the blu ray disc audio is lossless at 7000 to 10,000 kbits/sec.
Whether or not you hear a difference and it matters is personal for you to decide. I had one of those free three month accounts for Apple music. I listened to some Atmos recordings and after the initial pleasure of those mixes, with concentrated critical listening, the streaming versions became tiresome for my listening, and I cancelled the subscription. By contrast, concentrated critical listening to the blu ray versions is, for me, consistently a pleasure. I have had formal music training, perhaps that makes a difference, perhaps not, but I am trained to listen critically. Superficially, the streaming versions sound okay, but after spending time I notice the loss of detail and lack of precision.
Unfortunately the selection available on blu ray is more limited, and are often released in limited editions. However, because I have found the streaming Atmos releases to be painful, other than as background music, and since I don't listen to music in the background, streaming is, for me, useless.
I'm well aware of the stats and my MiniDSP + Genelec + Sub setup is certainly revealing.
I probably haven't done enough back and forth between bluray and steamed atmos perhaps, but I certainly do not find streamed atmos to be any more fatiguing than bluray.
High resolution stereo lossless, compressed to buggery, yep that sure can be tiresome.
But whether something sounds good to me or not tends to be influenced more by external factors such as background noise or general mood, than anything.
Stream Max Cooper's Peace Exists Here from his On Being album. Sure it's electronic, but its been engineered for spatial audio and sounds incredible, and not remotely fatiguing. I can provide many more examples. Annoyingly, I don't think this album is available on bluray which would prove an interesting comparison.
There is more to life than bitrates though, and I'd rather listen to the likes of KEXP on YouTube, streamed via low bit rates, but where the studio engineers know how to set things up, than to high resolution, heavily compressed and fatiguing stereo from some of the steaming platforms.
This Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms album. For my part, I've listened to it too much. Maybe that's why I find these from Dire Straits better these days:Hello,
More than a year ago, article titled "Blu-ray “pure” audio: a format for the future?" raised the inquiry regarding whether Blu-ray represents the future format for audio..
When is it today?
View attachment 439287
For a start, announcements of forthcoming releases are on the increase, with flagship albums such as :
Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms
Elton John and Brandi Carlile - Who Believes In Angels
Roxy Music / Avalon
Prince and the Revolution - Purple Rain
In just over a year, more and more albums have been released in Blu-ray format, featuring the Dolby Atmos track in Lossless Dolby Digital TrueHD format.
But also, by offering a stereo track without dynamic compression, as with Tears For Fears' “Songs for a Nervous Planet” or Ultravox's “Lament”, thus proposing an audiophile approach to this medium.
Also worthy of note is the superb Steven Wilson - The overview, a reference in terms of Dolby Atmos mixing.
Often in special, limited editions from SDE, or more and more widely distributed editions (Pink Floyd, The Rolling Stone…).
Just take a look at some of the titles released since June 2023 to see the diversity and the presence of some very well-known singers and bands:
- Pet Shop Boys “Nonetheless”
- With The Pineapple Thief “It Leads To This”, we realized that bluray was the most audiophile medium, offering the best audio quality.
- Pink Floyd “Animals”
- Paul Young “No Parlez”
- Mark Knopfler “One Deep River”
- John Williams "John Williams in Tokyo"
- Alphaville’s “Forever Young”
- David Gilmour “Luck and Strange”
- Steven Wilson “The Harmony Codex”
- Pink Floyd “The Dark Side Of The Moon”
- The Rolling Stones “Hackney Diamonds”
- Peter Gabriel “i/o”
- Mike Oldfield “Tubular Bells”
- Serge Gainsbourg “L’homme à tête de chou”
- The Alan Parsons Project “Pyramid”
- Ultravox “Lament “
- The Cure “Songs of A Lost World”
- Simple Minds “New Gold Dream (81–82–83–84)”
- ...
This is not the case for all albums, but the trend continues.
In parallel, there is also an alternative distribution of the Dolby Atmos track in the Lossless Dolby Digital TrueHD format, with dematerialized music sales sites such as:
https://shop.2l.no, https://immersiveaudioalbum.com, https://www.nativedsd.com
For example
The Tsuyoshi Yamamoto Trio is back with a new album, “A Shade Of Blue”.
Madeleine Peyroux - Let's Walk
The big winner is the Dolby Digital TrueHD Atmos format, and some editions also feature an uncompressed dynamic stereo track, providing the audiophile quality required for stereo and Atmos music reproduction.
We're still a long way from widespread distribution, but we can only hope that the spread of Dolby Atmos in Lossless and stereo without loudness war continues to develop, whether in physical Blu-ray or dematerialized formats.
And who knows, maybe one day a streaming service will be available with the Dolby Atmos TrueHD format. And for stereo with or without loudness war!
Enjoy listening,
Jean-François
Private Investigations has always sounded so, so good. Agree - I too have possibly heard Brothers in Arms a few too many times! Still....This Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms album. For my part, I've listened to it too much. Maybe that's why I find these from Dire Straits better these days:
View attachment 493919View attachment 493920
Don't sell Communique short, it is excellent as well.This Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms album. For my part, I've listened to it too much. Maybe that's why I find these from Dire Straits better these days:
View attachment 493919View attachment 493920
I used to be a big fan of Making Movies but these days it doesn't hold up as well to me.
masterhw
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probably as simple as low demand for lossless Atmos. there would be negligible difference on the overwhelming majority of consumer setups. great performing and huge 4K HDR TVs are dirt cheap now, but the audio equivalent is just not as accessible. streamers probably tell themselves the few enthusiasts who care will just buy blu rays.
You mean the difference is more negligible than 44.1 vs 96khz “hires” that they decided was worth the effort? Why would “Hires” ATMOS garner less interest than hires stereo? To me it would seem like a no-brainer for tidal to pursue in an attempt to differentiate from apple. Maybe in cooperation with ROON.
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Yes it is completely different. As the aphorism goes, you are mixing up apples with oranges. Sample rate refers to frequency response, so that a 96kHz sample rate has a frequency response up to 48kHz, whereas a 44.1 kHz sample frequency response is limited to 22.5 kHz; which is fine because human beings cannot hear anything between around 20 kHz (or lower as you age) and 48 kHz, (therefore irrelevant unless you are producing music for bats or dogs). Thus, high sample rate files are a marketing gimmick more than anything else.
Bit rate refers to the quantity of data being transmitted each second. DD+ (the streaming standard) is generally 768 kbits/sec, it is lossy using clever algorithms to recreate the full audio experience, and as a lossy format it is excellent, they can cram 16 positions of audio (a 9.1.6 Atmos system) into that tiny stream. BUT it is lossy and it is missing data. That is why Dolby TrueHD is objectively superior, and in my experience, perceptibly superior. TrueHD has a data rate limit of 18 Mbits/sec, though typically blu ray discs are 7000-10000 kbit/sec with peaks up to 18000. Putting another way, TrueHD on a typical blu ray has over 10 times the resolution of the streaming version. This is not a marketing gimmick, it is an objectively superior audio format.
By the way, I own two of the discs mentioned, Roxy and Brothers in Arms and they are both superb.
