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Dirac vs Dirac with Bass Management, vs Genelec GLM... None optimally use subwoofers?

stevenswall

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MiniDSP article on Dirac BM sending out one signal and not being able to use all subwoofers and large speakers to make bass even across multiple listening positions:

https://www.minidsp.com/applications/home-theater-tuning/ddrc-88a-multi-sub-optimizer

It also seems regular Dirac has limitations not being able to even use the deep bass from floorstanders, and just cuts it off and sends it to a subwoofer.

Here's someone saying Genelec's GLM simple flattens each subwoofer and doesn't take into account how they affect each other:

https://www.community.genelec.com/fi/forum/-/message_boards/message/922540#/


I thought Dirac with BM or GLM would use all drivers that can produce bass to do so, taking into account how they interact with each other to ensure optimal results.

Does Audessey do this? Maybe Paradigm with their room correction?

Is my understanding incorrect, or is there no product on the market that does what everyone thought Dirac Live Bass Management was supposed to do?
 

Absolute

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I think, don't actually know, that Minidsp in that multi-sub optimizer is talking about regular Dirac and not the new Dirac BM that will release these days.

Other than multi-sub optimizer and the new Dirac BM I think Trinnov and Harman SFM are capable of the same.
 

astr0b0y

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That’s a years old article from miniDSP. Regular Dirac does no bass management at all, the article you have linked to explains very clearly that bass management is achieved using their (miniDSPs) plugin and multisubwoofer blending is handled by MSO.
 

detlev24

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@stevenswall: I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean by "It also seems regular Dirac has limitations not being able to even use the deep bass from floorstanders, and just cuts it off and sends it to a subwoofer.". Can you clarify with an example?

However, I have come across some limitations. Generally, as far as I understand, (e.g.) standard Dirac Live does correct for each channel individually. In a common stereo-setup this means one gets a frequency response according to the applied target curve, for both L and R loudspeakers individually. If one plays a track that has been mixed in mono-bass; i.e., the same information <100 Hz plays on both the channels at the same time; it will lead to a combined frequency response much different to the individual channel calibrations. Mono-bass is quite common; but other tracks might be mixed in stereo-bass. // In a multi-channel setup things get even more complex especially, if stereo and multi-channel playback shall be achieved without changing (software) configurations. Throw in a pair of full-range loudspeakers and it will be even harder to find "the right" compromise... o_O

To my knowledge, Multi-Sub Optimizer (MSO) + Dirac Live allows for the greatest flexibility, so far.

There's a note by miniDSP in the 'User Downloads' section, regarding Dirac Live Bass Management (DLBM): "Note that the Bass management feature of Dirac (DLBM) isn't supported by the DDRC88 series. These are add on features which would require a completely different DSP code and would somehow colide with our 88BM option."

Furthermore, the Dirac Live Bass Control manual mentions on its last page:

"Generalized Low-frequency Support: Since full-range speakers can produce frequencies below 100 Hz, we can contribute to the optimization by including them into the bass control design. As seen in section Handling of multiple subwoofers, by adjusting levels, delays, and phase responses of the individual subwoofers, it is possible to minimize the variation between the measurement points and get a more unified listening area. Correspondingly, it is a planned Bass Control feature that the user will have the ability to include their full-range speakers into the Bass Control optimization. From the optimization design perspective, a full-range speaker will be seen as both a small-range speaker and a subwoofer."

I am not aware how others, like JBL Intonato 24 handle such complex bass management tasks, though.

Maybe this is not entirely what you have asked about, but it hopefully does provide some useful information. ^^
 
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stevenswall

stevenswall

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Thanks for the information guys. Didn't see the date on the MiniDSP article and the name Dirac Bass Management is generic enough that I thought it was being referred to.

I'll have to see if I can call or email Genelec about GLM 4 and see what they say. The customer service and sales people are good, they just don't seem to have quite the technical understanding I'm looking for and I'm not sure who I'd have to go though.
 

astr0b0y

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If you wait long enough, Dirac will probably change the name to something else generic - they’re consumer marketing is a bit all over the place. You’ll see on their Dirac downloads page a reference to future updates bringing the ability to mix bass from all speakers, possible using their Unison technology which has been available as in car for a few years.
 

hege

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