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Dirac versus Lyngdorf Room Perfect

dougi

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I now have Dirac and rp in the same system, with measurements. Happy to post them if there is interest.
 
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S

samysound

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I now have Dirac and rp in the same system, with measurements. Happy to post them if there is interest.
Hi, please do if you dont mind. Did you integrate subwoofers with both or either?
 

dougi

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Hi, please do if you dont mind. Did you integrate subwoofers with both or either?
Sorry, I don't currently have subs integrated with either. From memory, RP does a good job integrating, given a reasonable starting point in terms of level and manual delay entry.

Anyway, I can present a comparison between DIRAC live 3.3 and RoomPerfect (2.6?) in a 2.0 setup.

DIRAC chain: MiniDSP Flex digital -> RME ADI-2 PRO -> March Audio P502 -> Wharfedale Heritage Linton -> 8 x 12m+ room, largely untreated. Listening position about 3.8m from each speaker.
RP chain: Lyngdorf DPA-1 digital output -> (same as above).
Left speaker is in a fairly open position, about 1m from front wall. Right is next to a wall with large windows, one with drapes down for setup.

nb: measurements have been taken 3 months apart, but with an identical measurement setup, mic position and room furnishings.

Calibration notes: RP is very straightforward to setup, as long as you have a boom mike stand (normally included) and a 6m mic cable or so (normally included). Self-contained to the hardware so no PC connection required. The supplied measurement mike was used.

I had some issues with DIRAC calibration when using my Scarlet 2i2 gen2 and Sonarworks mic. It would not calculate delays and correct phase correctly until I reduced the audio interface driver sample rate to 44.1kHz and buffer to 64 samples. So unless you are using the recommended UMIKs, always measure with REW afterwards to ensure it has done the right thing. Mic cal used was o degrees so mic pointed towards the speakers (which is also what you do with RP for the initial focus measurement). DIRAC target curve was given a slight bass boost but detected ranges were left as is (I think saying ~33 Hz and 17 kHz).

Measurements presented for RP in "focus" setting and I setup DIRAC using "focussed imaging" measurement. Ignore SPL levels.

RAW IN-ROOM MEASUREMENTS WITH EXAMPLE TARGET
raw.jpg

You can see more variations in the right due to more reflections and note the difference in treble performance of the tweeters in the speakers (confirmed by other measurements). Bass is available down to 30 Hz or so.

EQ COMPARISON RIGHT SPEAKER
right.jpg

I really should tweak the speaker position to help that 250 Hz dip that neither wanted to fix (but I have successfully with manual REW based EQ). Bother otherwise sort bass out nicely, quite similarly.


EQ COMPARISON LEFT SPEAKER

left.jpg

RP sometimes given a bit of a 2-4k lift and has done a bit of that here. While RP is supposed to determine the speaker roll-offs and leave those alone, it has lifted the high treble here (probably a good thing).

NO EQ STRAIGHT THROUGH FLEX STEP RESPONSE EXAMPLE

step no eq.jpg


ROOM PERFECT STEP RESPONSE EXAMPLE

rp step.jpg

The RP step never looks good due to it filtering the bass region (~500 Hz) separately then recombining. This may be different in newer versions. I haven't shown the impulse zoomed in, but if I did you can see that the tweeter is connected in reverse polarity.

dirac step.jpg

You can see the large correction in the time domain, with the tweeter inversion "fixed" and step corrected.

CLARITY EXAMPLE
clarity.jpg

Clarity is slightly improved for both speakers with DIRAC cw RP.

SPECTROGRAM RP
rp spectro.jpg


SPECTROGRAM DIRAC
dirac spectro.jpg


DIRAC certainly has a different spectrogram than RP, both in the bass and the decay in the treble also seems shorter. This may explain the slightly better clarity measurements.

CONCLUSION
Once you sort out setup issues, both are easy to do. To me, DIRAC does seem to focus imaging better than RP and, for me, the ability to tweak target curves makes it more suitable, but noting that newer RP versions do have that. Unfortunately Lyngdorf no longer sell a seperate preamp with RP, other than a Steinway version or the multi-channel processsors. The only niggles I have with DIRAC is the need to connect to see results and need to connect to their servers.
 
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swizard

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Great comparison @dougi, thanks for sharing this. Can you recommend something that explains how to read step/impulse response graphs and the spectrogram graphs?
 

Holmz

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Great comparison @dougi, thanks for sharing this. Can you recommend something that explains how to read step/impulse response graphs and the spectrogram graphs?

From here you get to the other pages in the series.


And in here the stuff starts around page 20.


And here:
 

dougi

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From here you get to the other pages in the series.


And in here the stuff starts around page 20.


And here:
Thanks @Holmz. I did start to look around, but couldn't quickly find an information source that I liked.
 

swizard

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From here you get to the other pages in the series.


And in here the stuff starts around page 20.


And here:
Thanks, @Holmz. I just started that series on Measuring Loudspeakers in Stereophile - one of the best introductions I've seen, understandable even to someone without an engineering degree.
 

exm

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Sorry, I don't currently have subs integrated with either. From memory, RP does a good job integrating, given a reasonable starting point in terms of level and manual delay entry.

Anyway, I can present a comparison between DIRAC live 3.3 and RoomPerfect (2.6?) in a 2.0 setup.

DIRAC chain: MiniDSP Flex digital -> RME ADI-2 PRO -> March Audio P502 -> Wharfedale Heritage Linton -> 8 x 12m+ room, largely untreated. Listening position about 3.8m from each speaker.
RP chain: Lyngdorf DPA-1 digital output -> (same as above).
Left speaker is in a fairly open position, about 1m from front wall. Right is next to a wall with large windows, one with drapes down for setup.

nb: measurements have been taken 3 months apart, but with an identical measurement setup, mic position and room furnishings.

Calibration notes: RP is very straightforward to setup, as long as you have a boom mike stand (normally included) and a 6m mic cable or so (normally included). Self-contained to the hardware so no PC connection required. The supplied measurement mike was used.

I had some issues with DIRAC calibration when using my Scarlet 2i2 gen2 and Sonarworks mic. It would not calculate delays and correct phase correctly until I reduced the audio interface driver sample rate to 44.1kHz and buffer to 64 samples. So unless you are using the recommended UMIKs, always measure with REW afterwards to ensure it has done the right thing. Mic cal used was o degrees so mic pointed towards the speakers (which is also what you do with RP for the initial focus measurement). DIRAC target curve was given a slight bass boost but detected ranges were left as is (I think saying ~33 Hz and 17 kHz).

Measurements presented for RP in "focus" setting and I setup DIRAC using "focussed imaging" measurement. Ignore SPL levels.

RAW IN-ROOM MEASUREMENTS WITH EXAMPLE TARGET
View attachment 214509
You can see more variations in the right due to more reflections and note the difference in treble performance of the tweeters in the speakers (confirmed by other measurements). Bass is available down to 30 Hz or so.

EQ COMPARISON RIGHT SPEAKER
View attachment 214510
I really should tweak the speaker position to help that 250 Hz dip that neither wanted to fix (but I have successfully with manual REW based EQ). Bother otherwise sort bass out nicely, quite similarly.


EQ COMPARISON LEFT SPEAKER

View attachment 214511
RP sometimes given a bit of a 2-4k lift and has done a bit of that here. While RP is supposed to determine the speaker roll-offs and leave those alone, it has lifted the high treble here (probably a good thing).

NO EQ STRAIGHT THROUGH FLEX STEP RESPONSE EXAMPLE

View attachment 214546

ROOM PERFECT STEP RESPONSE EXAMPLE

View attachment 214512
The RP step never looks good due to it filtering the bass region (~500 Hz) separately then recombining. This may be different in newer versions. I haven't shown the impulse zoomed in, but if I did you can see that the tweeter is connected in reverse polarity.

View attachment 214513
You can see the large correction in the time domain, with the tweeter inversion "fixed" and step corrected.

CLARITY EXAMPLE
View attachment 214514
Clarity is slightly improved for both speakers with DIRAC cw RP.

SPECTROGRAM RP
View attachment 214515

SPECTROGRAM DIRAC
View attachment 214516

DIRAC certainly has a different spectrogram than RP, both in the bass and the decay in the treble also seems shorter. This may explain the slightly better clarity measurements.

CONCLUSION
Once you sort out setup issues, both are easy to do. To me, DIRAC does seem to focus imaging better than RP and, for me, the ability to tweak target curves makes it more suitable, but noting that newer RP versions do have that. Unfortunately Lyngdorf no longer sell a seperate preamp with RP, other than a Steinway version or the multi-channel processsors. The only niggles I have with DIRAC is the need to connect to see results and need to connect to their servers.

Thanks for this data. However, sub integration is a big part of RoomEQ, and an area where RP really shines. I wish you would be able to cover that part also.
 
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