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I'm using my lap with windows 10 but my NAD C658 has the dirac built in. So the NAD program screen might be different then the PC dirac download screen .?
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Dirac Reviews
- Thread starter mr-audio
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Wonder whether I could/should be happy with these results. They've been measured with MMM method over multiple 60 averages measurements with Umik-1.
Target is modified Harman. Crossover is at 80Hz for all channels. I applied ERB smoothing to the graphs as it seemed to me it would make sense to evaluate listening experience. Psy is similar anyway. I have 1/48 measurements, as per MMM guides. In case they're needed just ask (I could even share the measurement file, if interesting).
Speakers are R7 Meta and R6 Meta. But they're part of a 5.3.4 system with Dynaudio surrounds (Audience 42W) and Polk Atmos ceiling mounted (Atrium 5), so I need to act on full range in order to bring the tonality to a similar result among all the speakers. I use Dirac DLBC with three subs, 2 SVS SB1000 and 1 SVS SB2000 (and the bass portion looks and sounds good).
Subjectively this sounds awesome to me. I've listened for hours to all kinds of music I know and love and the results seem pretty convincing. Same for movies with Atmos effects. But I'm kinda surprised at the uneveness in the 200Hz-600Hz range, considering the room is kinda heavily treated with absorbing acoustic panels on walls and ceiling. Frequencies in that range should not require bass traps, am I right? I have three bass traps but they're not huge.
EDIT
I think I'll have to assume there are limits when checking with REW. Microphone positioning and movement while using MMM matter too much. I used a 6 positions very focused pattern when calibrating Dirac. Redoing REW measurements now, while trying to more closely mimic in my movement the positions used for the calibration resulted in this (left speaker).
Where it's much more linear from 200Hz to 1000Hz but then it exhibit a valley from 1.1kHz to 1.6kHz that is simply not there (or less evident) in the measurement you'll see below.
END EDIT
Left speaker
Right speaker
Left + Right Speakers
Center Speaker
Target is modified Harman. Crossover is at 80Hz for all channels. I applied ERB smoothing to the graphs as it seemed to me it would make sense to evaluate listening experience. Psy is similar anyway. I have 1/48 measurements, as per MMM guides. In case they're needed just ask (I could even share the measurement file, if interesting).
Speakers are R7 Meta and R6 Meta. But they're part of a 5.3.4 system with Dynaudio surrounds (Audience 42W) and Polk Atmos ceiling mounted (Atrium 5), so I need to act on full range in order to bring the tonality to a similar result among all the speakers. I use Dirac DLBC with three subs, 2 SVS SB1000 and 1 SVS SB2000 (and the bass portion looks and sounds good).
Subjectively this sounds awesome to me. I've listened for hours to all kinds of music I know and love and the results seem pretty convincing. Same for movies with Atmos effects. But I'm kinda surprised at the uneveness in the 200Hz-600Hz range, considering the room is kinda heavily treated with absorbing acoustic panels on walls and ceiling. Frequencies in that range should not require bass traps, am I right? I have three bass traps but they're not huge.
EDIT
I think I'll have to assume there are limits when checking with REW. Microphone positioning and movement while using MMM matter too much. I used a 6 positions very focused pattern when calibrating Dirac. Redoing REW measurements now, while trying to more closely mimic in my movement the positions used for the calibration resulted in this (left speaker).
Where it's much more linear from 200Hz to 1000Hz but then it exhibit a valley from 1.1kHz to 1.6kHz that is simply not there (or less evident) in the measurement you'll see below.
END EDIT
Left speaker
Right speaker
Left + Right Speakers
Center Speaker
Last edited:
Hi everyone. My listening position is much closer than the distance between the floor speakers. I can't have them any closer because my desk is 205cm wide and 60-80cm deep. The desk is against the wall but I can't fit it in the space. Will Dirac fix this? Probably not or yes?
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Dirac can't "fix" positioning issues with the stereo triangle. The likely consequence of this will be a poor phantom center. Are you having any issues with your setup or does it sound fine to you?
Thanks. I'm deciding between passive or active speakers that I could put on a table or on a wall. Yes, that phantom keeps moving from side to side. 
I definitely don't want to get rid of my Primare I35 amplifier and CD 35 player. I use a Node Icon as a source, but without Dirac.
I definitely don't want to get rid of my Primare I35 amplifier and CD 35 player. I use a Node Icon as a source, but without Dirac.
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If you can't alter your setup, I might suggest trying a 3-channel setup if at all practical.Thanks. I'm deciding between passive or active speakers that I could put on a table or on a wall. Yes, that phantom keeps moving from side to side.
scotchrocks
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I have a similar non-ideal set up with a wide desk pushed up against the wall. I use Genelec 8351As that are less than a meter away , but I don't have any serious imaging issues to my ear. I think the even dispersion of the speakers helps with this, so even if I lean to one side a bit or turn my head, things don't sound too different. I do sit directly in between the pair of speakers, and I don't use Dirac for this. Due to having multiple monitors to my left and right, the speakers are also elevated about a foot above ear level and pointed very slightly downward. Things still sound natural though.
In short, is you're able to, it may be worth trying some speakers with wide, even dispersion characteristics.
OK, so my preliminary report on Dirac ART, X4800h replacing Integra DRX3.4 with DL (full range)
Initial cursory listening, with +4 / -3 target curve... is it any different?
Set up 2 presets :
Finding the profiles a bit bass heavy (I had used the tone control on the DRX to reduce the bass... really should have just adjusted the target curve!).
New set of 2 presets - targets set using "handles"/shelves:
Listened to a range of music... blues, jazz, classical, rock
There is a difference, but it is subtle, (a sign that my system & room are well sorted?) - but the ART preset seems clearer, not much in it.
Other half came in and sat down, then without prompting, she said, it sounds "lighter", less tiring, what have you done?
I then did a bit of switching back and forth with various tracks and both of us on the couch... yes ART is definitely a step up.
If I was in a smaller room with more acoustic issues, it might have a greater impact, but even so it has a noticeable impact.
Is it worth the AU$4000 spend (AU$3000 for the Denon X4800, AU$1000 for Dirac ART)... I'm not sure... but it did definitely progress the system positively.
Some notes about my room - it is very large - open living space with lounge/dining/kitchen and open hallway to rest of home - ceiling/roof is also vaulted/cathedral ceiling - so a substantial volume, and bass nodes/nulls are likely to be in the infrasonic range due to the space size - so the DL setup was already sounding pretty damn good.
Bass - I have mentioned before that I am not a bass head - my search is more for clarity, detail, texture.... which I am getting.
After further messing about I further lowered the bass end of the spectrum, and am now running with a "handles" based target at 0db, and treble at -3db
Fronts (24Hz) are supporting at -12db - supporting center, surrounds, front heights, sub -18
Center (50Hz) is not supporting anything
Surrounds (35Hz) - supporting Fronts -12, Surrounds -18, surround heights -18, Sub -18
Heights are not supporting anything (they are supported by fronts for FH, surround for SH, and all by Sub -18)
Sub - Supports all at -18, supported by Fronts -12 and Surrounds -18
Happy with the result...
Have yet to try movies - which may or may not need their own seperate preset with more of a bass boost - we will see...
Summary - a big subjective "Tick" for ART - subjective improvements in clarity (midrange and bass), music appears more "relaxed" (an outcome or removing the decay from the room?), imaging improve, but all the effects are subtle - nothing overt or obvious - no "wow" moment of enlightenment.
I think those experiencing the "wow" effects are most likely in smaller rooms with more issues.
I did not deploy the 2nd sub... don't feel the need.
Initial cursory listening, with +4 / -3 target curve... is it any different?
Set up 2 presets :
- using the same DL parameters as I previously used with the DRX3.4 - the sound is familiary - it sounds just the way it has for the last couple of years - all good. (Good sign that the X4800 isn't doing anything wrong!) - target curve is following native in room response of my Gallo's
- set up with ART - using +4/-3 target curve
Finding the profiles a bit bass heavy (I had used the tone control on the DRX to reduce the bass... really should have just adjusted the target curve!).
New set of 2 presets - targets set using "handles"/shelves:
- ART preset with +2 / -3 profile
- DL preset with +2 / -3 profile
Listened to a range of music... blues, jazz, classical, rock
There is a difference, but it is subtle, (a sign that my system & room are well sorted?) - but the ART preset seems clearer, not much in it.
Other half came in and sat down, then without prompting, she said, it sounds "lighter", less tiring, what have you done?
I then did a bit of switching back and forth with various tracks and both of us on the couch... yes ART is definitely a step up.
If I was in a smaller room with more acoustic issues, it might have a greater impact, but even so it has a noticeable impact.
Is it worth the AU$4000 spend (AU$3000 for the Denon X4800, AU$1000 for Dirac ART)... I'm not sure... but it did definitely progress the system positively.
Some notes about my room - it is very large - open living space with lounge/dining/kitchen and open hallway to rest of home - ceiling/roof is also vaulted/cathedral ceiling - so a substantial volume, and bass nodes/nulls are likely to be in the infrasonic range due to the space size - so the DL setup was already sounding pretty damn good.
Bass - I have mentioned before that I am not a bass head - my search is more for clarity, detail, texture.... which I am getting.
After further messing about I further lowered the bass end of the spectrum, and am now running with a "handles" based target at 0db, and treble at -3db
Fronts (24Hz) are supporting at -12db - supporting center, surrounds, front heights, sub -18
Center (50Hz) is not supporting anything
Surrounds (35Hz) - supporting Fronts -12, Surrounds -18, surround heights -18, Sub -18
Heights are not supporting anything (they are supported by fronts for FH, surround for SH, and all by Sub -18)
Sub - Supports all at -18, supported by Fronts -12 and Surrounds -18
Happy with the result...
Have yet to try movies - which may or may not need their own seperate preset with more of a bass boost - we will see...
Summary - a big subjective "Tick" for ART - subjective improvements in clarity (midrange and bass), music appears more "relaxed" (an outcome or removing the decay from the room?), imaging improve, but all the effects are subtle - nothing overt or obvious - no "wow" moment of enlightenment.
I think those experiencing the "wow" effects are most likely in smaller rooms with more issues.
I did not deploy the 2nd sub... don't feel the need.
C-, not terrible, better than nothing, but far from some magic improvement. In my case it's packaged into the MiniDSP Studio SHD, and not worth the $400 bucks that it adds. In the end I got the best results with REW alone after 6 months playing with that, REW+MSO, MSO alone and Dirac. I got 2 subs in diagonal corners and big Maggies up front. But the REW/MSO learning curve is damned steep. I can easily understand why people use it and love it though.
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Have used Dirac/GLM/Audyssey/Wiim roomfit. I would put GLM in front by a wide margin, then Dirac and Audyssey in a near tie but the Dirac tools are better. And finally Roomfit which is great for the price but lacking.
GLM (with Genelec monitors obviously) developed the center image and soundstage far more clearly than Dirac. It also seemed to blend the subwoofer better. I like the GLM tools less than Dirac but they work.
GLM (with Genelec monitors obviously) developed the center image and soundstage far more clearly than Dirac. It also seemed to blend the subwoofer better. I like the GLM tools less than Dirac but they work.
I only tried Dirac ART, Audyssey and various OCA versions, but ART has made the biggest improvement for staging. Even though my both fronts are placed symmetrical, but because of the room shape, their frequency response was quite different. I guess with art and fronts supporting each other, its response became shockingly similar, hence the staging improvements. Maybe it has something to do with better phase and time alignments as well, but the whole immersion with Atmos content became much better. Even dogs noticed it as they are going crazy when I'm watching any horror content, haha.
Did you apply correction for all the available frequency spectrum or did you use curtains?
Secondary report on ART...
Later that evening we watched some Netflix (Lincoln Lawyer) in Atmos...
Sound quality, immersion, imaging were markedly better than we have experienced before - this was our first movie listen to the X4800 with ART...
Will need to compare the Atmos / Movie experience between the DL config and the ART config to see whether the improvement was down to ART or whether it might be the updates to the Dolby decoder that are generating the improvements.
Later that evening we watched some Netflix (Lincoln Lawyer) in Atmos...
Sound quality, immersion, imaging were markedly better than we have experienced before - this was our first movie listen to the X4800 with ART...
Will need to compare the Atmos / Movie experience between the DL config and the ART config to see whether the improvement was down to ART or whether it might be the updates to the Dolby decoder that are generating the improvements.
Lol - yeah not gonna happen... the logistical cabling and switching requirements of a decent AB test with a 5.1.4 setup make it a non starter! (let alone a true DBT !!)
Still the (subjective) testing is providing some consistent results across different materials... and hopefully this weekend I will get some REW measurements, and apply a little science to the process.
I did use curtains. Don't remember exactly, but I think it's around 700-800 Hz. I used higher curtains for ATMOS speakers, because its FR was way worse, it's around 2k kHz for ATMOS and 1 kHz for center channel. Funny thing, but surround speaker response over 80 Hz is best in all my system
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