Dirac Live Exclamation Mark issue

[pogo]

Which target curve are you using?
But I assume that you are more likely to excite something in your room that leads to clipping message and messes up your frequency response.
Have you checked the chassis screws, ... on your speakers?

 

[PeterNL]

Which target curve are you using?
But I assume that you are more likely to excite something in your room that leads to clipping message and messes up your frequency response.
Have you checked the chassis screws, ... on your speakers?

Just simple Harman curve, modified little bit, custome curtains to not over extend lows and highs (Dirac tends to set curtains much lower on the left side, I prefer to let bass roll off naturally, same for the highs).
I've just double checked chassis screws and they were tight enough but I've tighten them to te max to be sure.

I think that while I am measuring using Dirac or REW, lows are much higher (especially first peak which is 24dB stronger) what causes clipping warning exceeding 100dB SPL at certain frequency (33-34Hz).

 

[pogo]

Dirac tends to set curtains much lower on the left side

Maybe the masking effect when you use an Umik-1 and don't calibrate at 85dB.

 

[PeterNL]

Maybe the masking effect when you use an Umik-1 and don't calibrate at 85dB.

Could be. But I am OK with the lowest notes 30-100Hz, looks and sounds really good to me after correction.
100-300Hz is what I am missing looking at the graphs.

 

[Muug]

I've used Dirac Live (full) (windows 10 pc) for about two years on my NAD C658. Microphone connected to the amplifier. Never had any issues (never paid attention to the DL version). A week ago I've exchanged it for a NAD M33. Installed the latest version (3.11.0) on the (same) laptop. I used the new mic (sat in the M33 box) of course. Bang the first, main, position gives me the dreaded exclamation mark and "imprecise measurement" issue. Never had it before. Sigh. I have these versions on my pc: 3.4.4 (I won't use it after reading this topic), 3.10.3, 3.10.10 and 3.11.0. I'll try v3.10.3 next week, because it's the closest to the 3.10.1 that seems to work. I'll keep you posted.

A question arised after reading this topic: should I use the NAD microphone calibration curve? Or just the default calibration curve? What difference can I expect?

 

[pogo]

This could also contribute to problems:

 

[PHD]

I've used Dirac Live (full) (windows 10 pc) for about two years on my NAD C658. Microphone connected to the amplifier. Never had any issues (never paid attention to the DL version). A week ago I've exchanged it for a NAD M33. Installed the latest version (3.11.0) on the (same) laptop. I used the new mic (sat in the M33 box) of course. Bang the first, main, position gives me the dreaded exclamation mark and "imprecise measurement" issue. Never had it before. Sigh. I have these versions on my pc: 3.4.4 (I won't use it after reading this topic), 3.10.3, 3.10.10 and 3.11.0. I'll try v3.10.3 next week, because it's the closest to the 3.10.1 that seems to work. I'll keep you posted.

A question arised after reading this topic: should I use the NAD microphone calibration curve? Or just the default calibration curve? What difference can I expect?

I'm having the same issue with my C658 plus the fact that the image is always off-center. Dirac support was useless. I simply gave up on Dirac, as I'm getting excellent sound quality using my Denon X4800H with Audussey (OCA's Nexus script). Dirac has become virtually useless somewhere down the line when v3.xx was released. Dirac support don't even bother commenting about the annoying exclamation mark issue. All you can do is try and repeat the measurements for the position.

Dirac Live right-shifted soundstage due to added delay on right channel

Hi It's been a few years since I had to run Dirac calibration on my NAD C658 (2.2 setup). Even after repeated attempts (re-measuring), I always end up with a right-shifted soundstage. If I change the balance to -4dB left, the soundstage returns to the center but still sounds off or out of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

My NAD C658 is now connected via pre-outs at fixed volume to my Denon analog inputs as a Blueos streaming source.

 

[Muug]

Could a wrong microphone gain cause the problem? Dirac video says to put it at 0db, but others give other advice, taking into account the noise floor.
Monday evening I'm alone at home and thus I will be able to test some more.

 

[pogo]

Has anyone loaded and exported an old project with DL 3.11?
It should lead to audible improvements in some cases.

 

[Muug]

A question about the preparation phase on this site:

Configure microphone and setting speaker levels for measurements in Dirac Live v2 & v3

More specific these two points:
2) Move "Master output" slider up until level of the softest speaker (in this example "Height 1 Left") is at least 20dB above noise floor (speaker meter showing roughly -20 to -30dB, green or blue zone in older app versions).
3) Click "Play" button for the left speaker and reduce its level so it also measures at least 20dB above noise floor (speaker meter showing roughly -20 to -30dB, green or blue zone in older app versions).

This is the image that goes with it:

a) where exactly in point 2) do I find this "noise floor"? Is that the -47.3db (at the bottom of the Mic gain?)
b) eh, what? Am I correct that in this step the speaker slider has to be moved downwards?

 

[Muug]

Hold your horses. I've been able to create and export some filters, after two hours of trial and error and trying to understand point 3).
In the end I've downloaded version 3.8.2 (see the information given by Holtz13 here: https://www.avforums.com/threads/dirac-live-measurement-errors.2481518/#post-32008778) , and moreover I think I interpreted point 3) correctly.
Key seems to be sliding down the speaker sliders until they are about 25dB above the noise floor. On the image you see each speaker at a level of -25.5dB, while the noise floor (see Mic gain) is -50.0dB.
And then there were no issues measuring all the points.
At the end I've loaded the NAD target curve, and exported the filter to the M33.
And then the ladywife arrived at home, so unfortunately I can't run tests with 3.11.0, and I didn't include my subwoofer in these measurements.
See you next Monday!

 

[Flak]

I'd suggest using the current Dirac Live 3.11 as it's intended to help with inaccurate measurements and many other aspects:

Features​

• Delay alignment update: The delay compensation for speaker distance alignment has previously been slightly confusing in that the shown delay values have not corresponded exactly to the measured acoustic delay. This has been due to that part of the delay alignment was included as a pre-amble of zeros in the Dirac Live filter itself, leaving only the remaining part of the alignment to be applied outside of the Dirac Live filter. A consequence of this partitioning was that if the user manually disabled the delay alignment, then the part of the delay inside the Dirac Live filters would remain being applied, resulting in a misalignment of the speakers. The new delay values more consistently represent the compensation for actual speaker distance or latency.
• Target curve update: We’re unifying how the advanced target curves (breakpoint) and simple target curves (high and low shelves) behave as input to the filter design. Under the hood, shelving targets will now be converted to breakpoint targets and follow the same filter design process.
• We’re introducing improvements in our measurement functionality:

1. Microphone recording level: Different microphones have resulted in different recording levels between MacOS and Windows due to different gains being applied on the microphone hardware and on the OS (operating system). For example, the UMIK-1 with USB-C connector has experienced very low recording levels on MacOS. In order to make all microphones work on all OS:s, we’re now only applying gain adjustment within the Dirac Live application.
2. Improved error detection on all platforms: An improved algorithm for detection of missing samples in the measurement recording is introduced. This will generate significantly less false alarms about measurements being “imprecise” (showing an exclamation mark). The improved algorithm will always be applied, both when using microphones connected to the AVR/receiver device and to the PC/Mac.
3. Improved recording quality on Windows: The Windows WASAPI driver will be used in Exclusive Mode by default. Exclusive Mode significantly reduces the probability for losing samples during the recording. It is possible to opt-out of Exclusive Mode by setting the environment variable: DAUDIO_WASAPI_NON_EXCLUSIVE = ON

• We’ve extended the local logging from the Dirac Live, including received notifications from the connected device, to improve problem traceability.
• Dirac Live 3.11 has dropped support for MacOS 10 and now only works on MacOS 11 and up. The latest release that supports MacOS 10.14 is Dirac Live 3.9.7.

Bug fixes

• We have fixed an issue that caused the mic gain slider to sometimes not being shown in the Volume Calibration page.
• Sometimes, a persistent error, such as an unreachable network, could generate multiple error messages. We now avoid generating identical generic error messages.
• The function to reset the frequency curtains works again.
• The Dirac Live application could crash when selecting Bass Control for devices from Onkyo with recently updated firmware supporting Dirac Live Bass Control.

Known issues

• Some users have reported that Dirac Live Bass Control does not work well on Onkyo TX-RZ50. We are investigating this together with Onkyo.
• Filter export to devices from Onkyo/Integra/Pioneer take longer time than usual, but it eventually completes.
• It is not possible to use the Qt installer maintenancetool to uninstall the Dirac Live application on Intel-based Macs running MacOS 15.
  Workaround: It is possible to install a newer version of Dirac Live without first uninstalling.

Download​

Windows: https://artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accord/release/win64/diraclive-v3.11.0-setup.exe
macOS: https://artifacts.connect.dirac.com/public/accord/release/macos/diraclive-v3.11.0-setup.zip

 

[Muug]

I'd suggest using the current Dirac Live 3.11 as it's intended to help with inaccurate measurements and many other aspects:

Features​

• Delay alignment update: The delay compensation for speaker distance alignment has previously been slightly confusing in that the shown delay values have not corresponded exactly to the measured acoustic delay. This has been due to that part of the delay alignment was included as a pre-amble of zeros in the Dirac Live filter itself, leaving only the remaining part of the alignment to be applied outside of the Dirac Live filter. A consequence of this partitioning was that if the user manually disabled the delay alignment, then the part of the delay inside the Dirac Live filters would remain being applied, resulting in a misalignment of the speakers. The new delay values more consistently represent the compensation for actual speaker distance or latency.
• Target curve update: We’re unifying how the advanced target curves (breakpoint) and simple target curves (high and low shelves) behave as input to the filter design. Under the hood, shelving targets will now be converted to breakpoint targets and follow the same filter design process.
• We’re introducing improvements in our measurement functionality:

1. Microphone recording level: Different microphones have resulted in different recording levels between MacOS and Windows due to different gains being applied on the microphone hardware and on the OS (operating system). For example, the UMIK-1 with USB-C connector has experienced very low recording levels on MacOS. In order to make all microphones work on all OS:s, we’re now only applying gain adjustment within the Dirac Live application.
2. Improved error detection on all platforms: An improved algorithm for detection of missing samples in the measurement recording is introduced. This will generate significantly less false alarms about measurements being “imprecise” (showing an exclamation mark). The improved algorithm will always be applied, both when using microphones connected to the AVR/receiver device and to the

I'm afraid you've missed my first post in this topic. V3.11 was the first one (in 2y) that gave me imprecise measurements...

 

[bandyka77]

G'day, has this issue been confirmed fixed? I have not been able to do any measurements whatsoever for long time, I just got a new ARCAM AVR so would love to get Dirac run finally. Just tried to day wit the latest version and still no good, still get the exclamation mark.

 

[dweeeeb2]

G'day, has this issue been confirmed fixed? I have not been able to do any measurements whatsoever for long time, I just got a new ARCAM AVR so would love to get Dirac run finally. Just tried to day wit the latest version and still no good, still get the exclamation mark.

is that the 3.11 beta version? If so thats very disappointing. I can’t bring myself to test it….

 

[RenPa]

is that the 3.11 beta version? If so thats very disappointing. I can’t bring myself to test it….

I tried 3.11.00 with Arcam AVR21. Measurements went flawlessly in a 5.1 system, laptop, Umik-1, cal file to 90 degrees, frig off, conditionner off, noise floor below -49dB, receiver connected to laptop via ethernet cable.
BUT 3.11.00 doesn't work with Arcam because you vcan't trust the predicted response of a filter. 3.4.4 is the version to use. You can't measure with 3.4.4 and caclculate with 3.11.
If you use 3.4.4 make sure that your laptop Winn10 or 11 is in exclusive mode for the mic as explained in Dirac changelog in there wed site.

 

[bandyka77]

I tried 3.11.00 with Arcam AVR21. Measurements went flawlessly in a 5.1 system, laptop, Umik-1, cal file to 90 degrees, frig off, conditionner off, noise floor below -49dB, receiver connected to laptop via ethernet cable.
BUT 3.11.00 doesn't work with Arcam because you vcan't trust the predicted response of a filter. 3.4.4 is the version to use. You can't measure with 3.4.4 and caclculate with 3.11.
If you use 3.4.4 make sure that your laptop Winn10 or 11 is in exclusive mode for the mic as explained in Dirac changelog in there wed site.

Thanks, is there a link to download version 344?

 

[bandyka77]

is that the 3.11 beta version? If so thats very disappointing. I can’t bring myself to test it….

Yes tried the beta as well. No luck.

 

[bandyka77]

Done, finally I was able to complete a calibration using 344 thanks.

 

[levimax]

Done, finally I was able to complete a calibration using 344 thanks.

Do your results make sense? I have been able to "complete the measurement process" with several software versions but the "results" have been weird especially nonsensical subwoofer delays. I have not tried the new beta yet (hoping to confirm it actually work before I spend the time).