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Dirac Live cost vs RAW approach – advice needed

My problem is too much knowledge/experience perhaps. I've seen lots of goofed up Dirac plots here on ASR. There may be posts above about ART but that's not what the OP asked about is it? Also, ART is only available in AVR's and that's also not what the OP was really asking about.
There is no such thing as too much knowledge and experience. If you think you are done, that might be the problem. Goofed up - can't really even understand that that means. REW does not lie - for the most part.

ART is going to be available as PC version in 2026 as well - for example.
 
I think it's a reasonable approach, as far as it goes. As others have said, you've got the basis already. But you're asking for opinions/experiences as well, I think, from others who have been down this road. I have two systems, a 2.1 and a home theatre. I began the serious journey with the 2.1 and a DDRC-24 and an old Yamaha receiver as power amp.

My personal experience with DDRC-24: as always, YMMV. I had the sub. DDRC-24 does not do the sub integration, you have to do crossovers, distance manually. I used REW (first time) for this so it took me a while. As you get into REW you realize you can use AutoEQ to do the sub EQ as well (although Dirac can also do this as an integrated system). So the bass region is effectively taken care of by REW (using the filters in the miniDSP). Then, although Dirac can go full range, many, including myself, have found it better to limit it to Schroeder (300 to 500 Hz). So in my case Dirac was only really doing anything between 100 and 500Hz. Compound that with software glitches and less than stellar support from the MINIDSP folks, and my DDRC-24 was not long in service before being consigned to a drawer, where it remains. It was replaced by a used Denon x4400 using Audyssey room correction.

One mans experience, all it is. I'm sure you can find folks with better results than me.
I didn’t know that REW can generate EQ filters automatically and that I can simply copy them into the WiiM Ultra’s Parametric EQ. If that’s the case, I will certainly go with this approach.
 
So if I understand correctly, REW + the WiiM’s 10 Parametric EQ can achieve results close to Dirac Live, as long as the measurements are made carefully and the EQ is applied correctly?
 
Well, not too much knowledge (I learn new stuff everyday here on ASR), but enough to know what works and what doesn't. REW doesn't lie but many of the automated systems do. I have no AVR experience but have beta tested for Dirac, Sonarworks, Home Audio Fidelity and a few others for years so have a pretty good idea what's out there and what they are capable of. ART making it to PC in '26 is very hopeful.

I didn’t know that REW can generate EQ filters automatically and that I can simply copy them into the WiiM Ultra’s Parametric EQ. If that’s the case, I will certainly go with this approach.

This is precisely what I suggested using the MMM approach for your WiiM.
 
So if I understand correctly, REW + the WiiM’s 10 Parametric EQ can achieve results close to Dirac Live, as long as the measurements are made carefully and the EQ is applied correctly?
Yup. Although it seems it will be a little more manual than for example a minidsp, since it doesn't seem like REW currently generates a file that you can just dump into the WiiM via USB. But you can just use a generic and then hand copy them into the PEQs. Should only take a few minutes. But I don't have a Wiim so maybe others can tell you more about that.
 
Jok bolan, jedno po jedno ručno dok dobro ne uvježbaš i postavka po potrebi koliko ti treba kanala. Pa onda prema primjeni desktop ne balansirano PCI-E kartica (Creative) za kuće a za pro, balansirano i dalje digitalni interface (MOTU/Topping...). Moš se ti i dalje igrat i sa Dirac-om i Dolbi-ima ali na PC-u.
Ako hoš da učiš ovo je pravo mjesto! Al moraš to shvati kao hobi i polako. Kad ne ide, napraviš pauzu pa uzmeš veći čekić.
Ima bar par članova koji će se potruditi da ti objasne iako su svi siti ponavljanja tako da puno moš i tražeći i isčitavajući na određenu temu sam nadoć.

Na, silly... one by one by hand until you practiced it well and settings up too need be depending how much chenels you might need. And then to the practice; home use desktop unbalanced PCI-E card (for example Creative...), pro and beyond balanced digital interfaces (MOTU/Tooping...). You can still play around with Dirac and Dolby's but on PC.
If you want too learn this is the right place!
But you must take it as hoby and go easy. If it doesn't go, take a brake and pick a larger hammer.
There is at least couple of members that will take effort to explain you, even everyone is sick and tired of repetition so you can learn a lot and by searching and carefully reading to particular toppic on your own.

Disclaimer: text is same o' too creative translation.
 
If money is burning a hole in your pocket, get rid of that IMM-6 and get a proper microphone. You will need a better mic anyway. The IMM-6 is junk, I would not use it for serious measurements. It's only good for casual measurements and MMM's. If you absolutely must use it because you can't afford anything else, DON'T mount it directly to your laptop or phone. Get a cable for it, and duct tape it to a broom handle or something. Unless you are doing an MMM, the mic needs to be absolutely still when taking a measurement.

Remember: faulty measurement = faulty correction. There is no point debating miniscule improvements in DAC's or lusting for marginally better DSP by going for a MiniDSP over a Wiim. Yes, the DSP is better on a MiniDSP - it's more flexible, there are more outputs, and so on. Maybe more biquads and more FIR taps depending on the model. But no matter what DSP you use, if you can't take proper measurements it's likely you would worsen the sound instead of improving it.
 
Jok bolan, jedno po jedno ručno dok dobro ne uvježbaš i postavka po potrebi koliko ti treba kanala. Pa onda prema primjeni desktop ne balansirano PCI-E kartica (Creative) za kuće a za pro, balansirano i dalje digitalni interface (MOTU/Topping...). Moš se ti i dalje igrat i sa Dirac-om i Dolbi-ima ali na PC-u.
Ako hoš da učiš ovo je pravo mjesto! Al moraš to shvati kao hobi i polako. Kad ne ide, napraviš pauzu pa uzmeš veći čekić.
Ima bar par članova koji će se potruditi da ti objasne iako su svi siti ponavljanja tako da puno moš i tražeći i isčitavajući na određenu temu sam nadoć.

Na, silly... one by one by hand until you practiced it well and settings up too need be depending how much chenels you might need. And then to the practice; home use desktop unbalanced PCI-E card (for example Creative...), pro and beyond balanced digital interfaces (MOTU/Tooping...). You can still play around with Dirac and Dolby's but on PC.
If you want too learn this is the right place!
But you must take it as hoby and go easy. If it doesn't go, take a brake and pick a larger hammer.
There is at least couple of members that will take effort to explain you, even everyone is sick and tired of repetition so you can learn a lot and by searching and carefully reading to particular toppic on your own.

Disclaimer: text is same o' too creative translation.
Thanks :D (Hvala najlepša),
I understand your point — manual EQ is more about learning and practice than a quick one-click solution. I’ll start slowly with REW and the WiiM EQ and take it step by step.
I appreciate that some members are willing to help beginners like me.
 
I’ve got time — my goal is simply the best possible sound quality from my system, even if it means learning instead of buying an expensive automatic solution (which I’ve considered after reading how good it is).

My setup:
WiiM Ultra (streamer/DAC)
Audiophonics AP300-S250NC (Hypex NC252MP)
AsciLab C6B speakers (arriving mid-March)
Dayton IMM-6C measurement mic
Planning a subwoofer (likely Arendal 1961)
First of all, congratulations on choosing solid components for your starter setup, and welcome to the hobby. Your statement “the best possible sound quality from my system” is a deeper rabbit hole than it appears. One that has trapped many of us for years, though we’re all happy addicts ;)

My main recommendation is to focus on mastering your room and speakers first. There’s a learning curve, but it’s extremely rewarding. Since you already have a measurement mic and REW, you’re well equipped, learning how to measure your speakers with REW is fairly straightforward. From there, take the time to truly understand your speakers: their crossover behavior (phase shifts), bass roll-off characteristics, whether they prefer placement near walls or further out, optimal spacing between them, and their distance from side walls for best phantom imaging. I suggest selecting at least 20 high-quality, demanding stereo tracks that you use consistently to evaluate your system, and learning those tracks inside and out.

A subwoofer can be a great upgrade, but proper integration is an entirely different challenge that can take years to master, so I wouldn’t rush into it. For most music, your speakers when placed correctly should provide sufficient bass on their own. Start by addressing bass peaks early. In many cases, just two or three PEQ adjustments are enough, even using something like a WiiM. Be aware that our ears adapt quickly to what we hear regularly, and it’s easy to start thinking boomy bass sounds good (I’ve seen this happen with many analog-only vinyl enthusiast friends)

Most automated room correction systems will auto-degrade sound quality unless you spend serious time on manual tuning, and there’s no shortage of bad advice around them. Dirac ART is one of the very few that can currently surpass even the best manual results largely due to its true MIMO architecture (though that gap may not remain for long - PS that was a hint!). A1 is a close second (I might be biased!), but despite being free, will still require a Denon or Marantz AV receiver, a significant and, in my view, unnecessary cost for a stereo-only setup.
 
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Thanks :D (Hvala najlepša),
I understand your point — manual EQ is more about learning and practice than a quick one-click solution. I’ll start slowly with REW and the WiiM EQ and take it step by step.
I appreciate that some members are willing to help beginners like me.
Ask freely and I will try to help you directly.
Xroom (OCA did a lot with FIR) is to the length of the room. You can play with it firstly in REW simulator. You kick it with single negative shaped PEQ by hand so it looks as close as podible to negative of it self. You use spectral view and try not to kill it entirely there but make it close to other close to it room bursts. When you kick it it's next two deeps and bursts will correct too ass those are it's belonging harmonics (first and second one).
With that in place you are ready for some serious DSP-ing (as you already solved crucial thing which has to go with DSP anyhow).
Next would be preliminary FIR for impulse alignment (as perfect positioning dosent exist) and then you PEQ rest up to shoulder frequency or higher if need be. Some things is better to do with accustic treatment, quite basic elementary one (curtains, rug...) just enough to correct (focus) highs and mids (so that shoulder one is enough afterwards).
You will see that things go when you hang and commit to it. UMIK-1 is not recommend because it's very precise but as it has REW suport and you can use it as SPL meter with its calibration file instead of needing to use deticated stand alone SPL meter. It's precise enough for home use. UMIK-2 is higher precision and more up (in highs) but you don't need it if you aren't going to design speakers or do crazy things regarding time domain. Actually any half deacent (small capsule) condenser measurement microphone is more than good enough to do shoulder and beyond corrections (up to some 7 KHz and better ones go up to 9 KHz and beyond precise).
And Keith_W will guide you probably the most.
 
Why not buy a 3800H and just use Audyssey? I am using that now and years earlier (For sure some Denon and Marantz receivers earlier) with a 2.2 setup for music and it sounds nice. Yeah, I have Dirac Live/ DLBC and ART in another setup. I am not sure yet ,if I would make the investment for Dirac with a new AV receiver for music. In the years to come, Dirac will be more included with receivers, I guess.
 
First of all, congratulations on choosing solid components for your starter setup, and welcome to the hobby. Your statement “the best possible sound quality from my system” is a deeper rabbit hole than it appears. One that has trapped many of us for years, though we’re all happy addicts ;)

My main recommendation is to focus on mastering your room and speakers first. There’s a learning curve, but it’s extremely rewarding. Since you already have a measurement mic and REW, you’re well equipped, learning how to measure your speakers with REW is fairly straightforward. From there, take the time to truly understand your speakers: their crossover behavior (phase shifts), bass roll-off characteristics, whether they prefer placement near walls or further out, optimal spacing between them, and their distance from side walls for best phantom imaging. I suggest selecting at least 20 high-quality, demanding stereo tracks that you use consistently to evaluate your system, and learning those tracks inside and out.

A subwoofer can be a great upgrade, but proper integration is an entirely different challenge that can take years to master, so I wouldn’t rush into it. For most music, your speakers when placed correctly should provide sufficient bass on their own. Start by addressing bass peaks early. In many cases, just two or three PEQ adjustments are enough, even using something like a WiiM. Be aware that our ears adapt quickly to what we hear regularly, and it’s easy to start thinking boomy bass sounds good (I’ve seen this happen with many analog-only vinyl enthusiast friends)

Most automated room correction systems will auto-degrade sound quality unless you spend serious time on manual tuning, and there’s no shortage of bad advice around them. Dirac ART is one of the very few that can currently surpass even the best manual results largely due to its true MIMO architecture (though that gap may not remain for long - PS that was a hint!). A1 is a close second (I might be biased!), but despite being free, will still require a Denon or Marantz AV receiver, a significant and, in my view, unnecessary cost for a stereo-only setup.
@OCA : "PS that was a hint!"
Sorry to be blunt, but are you working on a tool similar to A1 that hijacks the Dirac ART interface/API on compatible D&M AVRs? That would be truly next-level awesome -- particularly given how great A1 Acoustix already is, which has to operate within the limitations of Audyssey obviously!
 
I can't believe this. :facepalm:

This guy has a 2ch system with 10 bands of PEQ per channel available with his current set up, his speakers won't even arrive for over a month and he says he might get a subwoofer. And already people are pushing him to get an AVR and forget about actually learning about how to measure, interpret the results and do objective improvements he can verify - which he says he is willing to learn and do! Why is anybody even talking about ART in a 2ch system? Is this helpful? Aren't we at ASR?

@ŽELJKO, when your speakers arrive set them up in your space in a reasonable way. Start playing with REW now with whatever speakers you currently have so you can be more effective when the time comes. Come on back here and show us how those lovely speakers and quite capable amp perform in your room with well presented .mdat files in a new thread and I'm sure you will get some real help.
 
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Why not buy a 3800H and just use Audyssey? I am using that now and years earlier (For sure some Denon and Marantz receivers earlier) with a 2.2 setup for music and it sounds nice. Yeah, I have Dirac Live/ DLBC and ART in another setup. I am not sure yet ,if I would make the investment for Dirac with a new AV receiver for music. In the years to come, Dirac will be more included with receivers, I guess.
Because some things you won't be able to learn to do with AVR even if it has one of the most complete DSP sections like Audyssey 32 (including basic ELC) and app to do manual PEQ corrections. For example how to do proper crossovers and more of them not just LFE mono sub. It's not that hard and only way to learn it properly is if you do it freely by hand while not being limited with full area of PEQ filters or their number. You follow and shape the response to math model (Linkwitz, Butterwort, proper order to in room response and what it should be to speaker design and enclosure) especially in transition area (close to ideal summing) and beyond it ensuring harmonics are grounded properly.
 
@OCA : "PS that was a hint!"
Sorry to be blunt, but are you working on a tool similar to A1 that hijacks the Dirac ART interface/API on compatible D&M AVRs? That would be truly next-level awesome -- particularly given how great A1 Acoustix already is, which has to operate within the limitations of Audyssey obviously!
Too early to comment :)
 
I agree. If someone wants to learn and has the time, that’s great. For many, it’s simply easier to run Audyssey (Dirac or other) a few times. Not better, maybe to self learning steps (if you get it right) It was just a suggestion.
Because some things you won't be able to learn to do with AVR even if it has one of the most complete DSP sections like Audyssey 32 (including basic ELC) and app to do manual PEQ corrections. For example how to do proper crossovers and more of them not just LFE mono sub. It's not that hard and only way to learn it properly is if you do it freely by hand while not being limited with full area of PEQ filters or their number. You follow and shape the response to math model (Linkwitz, Butterwort, proper order to in room response and what it should be to speaker design and enclosure) especially in transition area (close to ideal summing) and beyond it ensuring harmonics are grounded properly.
 
I agree. If someone wants to learn and has the time, that’s great. For many, it’s simply easier to run Audyssey (Dirac or other) a few times. Not better, maybe to self learning steps (if you get it right) It was just a suggestion.
That's why you will see so many complaints about sub/sub's integration in the first place. Yes it's easier to use auto tuning room correction but such is also limited closed box design (what is not included gets ignored) and which there are some that really aren't bad it's still limiting factor. For example you don't have ELC implemented in anything other than Audiseey and YPAO and in both cases it can be implemented better. ELC alone makes huge difference. Dirac is insane ludicrous patent money sipper (even after second price cut) if you want full multi sub one and number of suported herdware is tiny and not affordable for very most people (top tire Denon Japan AVR's). On other hand you can do it freely and for free but you have to put some effort to it and you learn to do it all the way including area installations (hopefully staying at meaningful complexity regarding chenel count) and have toy to play with as long as you live.
When someone comes and express wish to learn of course we will push him a little into right direction, it doesn't work other way.
Have a nice time and enjoy.
 
Jok bolan, jedno po jedno ručno dok dobro ne uvježbaš i postavka po potrebi koliko ti treba kanala. Pa onda prema primjeni desktop ne balansirano PCI-E kartica (Creative) za kuće a za pro, balansirano i dalje digitalni interface (MOTU/Topping...). Moš se ti i dalje igrat i sa Dirac-om i Dolbi-ima ali na PC-u.
Ako hoš da učiš ovo je pravo mjesto! Al moraš to shvati kao hobi i polako. Kad ne ide, napraviš pauzu pa uzmeš veći čekić.
Ima bar par članova koji će se potruditi da ti objasne iako su svi siti ponavljanja tako da puno moš i tražeći i isčitavajući na određenu temu sam nadoć.

Na, silly... one by one by hand until you practiced it well and settings up too need be depending how much chenels you might need. And then to the practice; home use desktop unbalanced PCI-E card (for example Creative...), pro and beyond balanced digital interfaces (MOTU/Tooping...). You can still play around with Dirac and Dolby's but on PC.
If you want too learn this is the right place!
But you must take it as hoby and go easy. If it doesn't go, take a brake and pick a larger hammer.
There is at least couple of members that will take effort to explain you, even everyone is sick and tired of repetition so you can learn a lot and by searching and carefully reading to particular toppic on your own.

Disclaimer: text is same o' too creative translation.
Lol, really bad translating engine though. But good effort so thanks for that.
 
Lol, really bad translating engine though. But good effort so thanks for that.
No engine or AI just myself. It's particularly hard to keep meaning and context like in poetry. Main part is he understud better on it's native language including slangs like introduction phrase or saving a bit of humouring part with hammer. At least that's been the idea. Quite frankly it's much easier to think only on one language or at least express it on the same one you thought it out, best regards.
 
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