Dirac Live cost vs RAW approach – advice needed

[BetweenThePeaks]

Hello everyone,

I am currently studying room calibration, room correction, and room treatment for a stereo music system.

I am a music lover trying to understand things step by step...

While reading and learning, I found myself in front of a kind of “wall”:

1. On one side, Dirac Live looks very effective and convenient, but for my situation the cost is very high, and I am not able (or willing) to spend that kind of money right now.

2. On the other side, the RAW approach (measure, understand the room, apply small manual corrections) is free and seems efficient, but it clearly requires more study, time, and learning.

At the moment, I am more inclined toward learning and using the RAW approach.

My idea is:

to use REW or other measurement tools installed on the small mini PC, always connected to power, running only measurement and correction software
keep corrections small and conservative (mainly cutting peaks, especially in bass).

While reading older threads, I also found references to an Android app called “Spectrum RTA”, developed by Leonid Arefev (Russian developer).

The app is no longer on the Play Store but can be found on APK repositories so I downloaded it.

Some users mentioned using it together with an external calibrated microphone, like the Dayton IMM-6 / IMM-6C ( that I already have) instead of the phone’s internal mic.

I am thinking of trying this setup:

Android phone + Spectrum RTA
Dayton IMM-6C with calibration file
mainly for peak detection, placement checks, and learning.

I know this is not a replacement for professional tools, but it looks like a low-cost, low-noise, practical way to learn, especially before investing money.

My question to the forum is:
What do you think is the best way to achieve meaningful audio improvement (especially bass control and overall balance) without spending a lot of money?

Is a RAW + manual correction approach realistic for a non expert?

Is using a mini PC always on a reasonable solution?

Are phone based measurements with an external mic acceptable for learning and basic correction?

What would you personally recommend as the best value / lowest cost path?

I’m here to learn so I will appreciate your suggestions.

I have WiiM Ultra with it's RoomFit, but as I could read it's not as efficient as above mentioned approaches.

Thank you.

 

[BJL]

Hello everyone,

I am currently studying room calibration, room correction, and room treatment for a stereo music system.

I am a music lover trying to understand things step by step...

While reading and learning, I found myself in front of a kind of “wall”:

1. On one side, Dirac Live looks very effective and convenient, but for my situation the cost is very high, and I am not able (or willing) to spend that kind of money right now.

2. On the other side, the RAW approach (measure, understand the room, apply small manual corrections) is free and seems efficient, but it clearly requires more study, time, and learning.

At the moment, I am more inclined toward learning and using the RAW approach.

My idea is:

to use REW or other measurement tools installed on the small mini PC, always connected to power, running only measurement and correction software
keep corrections small and conservative (mainly cutting peaks, especially in bass).

While reading older threads, I also found references to an Android app called “Spectrum RTA”, developed by Leonid Arefev (Russian developer).

The app is no longer on the Play Store but can be found on APK repositories so I downloaded it.

Some users mentioned using it together with an external calibrated microphone, like the Dayton IMM-6 / IMM-6C ( that I already have) instead of the phone’s internal mic.

I am thinking of trying this setup:

Android phone + Spectrum RTA
Dayton IMM-6C with calibration file
mainly for peak detection, placement checks, and learning.

I know this is not a replacement for professional tools, but it looks like a low-cost, low-noise, practical way to learn, especially before investing money.

My question to the forum is:
What do you think is the best way to achieve meaningful audio improvement (especially bass control and overall balance) without spending a lot of money?

Is a RAW + manual correction approach realistic for a non expert?

Is using a mini PC always on a reasonable solution?

Are phone based measurements with an external mic acceptable for learning and basic correction?

What would you personally recommend as the best value / lowest cost path?

I’m here to learn so I will appreciate your suggestions.

I have WiiM Ultra with it's RoomFit, but as I could read it's not as efficient as above mentioned approaches.

Thank you.

How much time do you have to put into this? I was in a similar position.

My solution: I bought a receiver with a Dirac license. Problem solved. I doubt that you can do better (or as well) as Dirac, unless you are planning on dedicating vast amounts of time, energy, and would derive enjoyment from tinkering, probably endlessly.

 

[middlemarch]

It seems like we just had a couple of threads on just this topic. As BJL says, how much time do you have? More important is what are your objectives? If it’s to learn about audio and room correction and measurement techniques as an end in itself, then by all means use the step by step method. Although I would forget about spectrum rta and just use REW and go from there. That’s the gold standard and where you’ll get the most help. Which you will need.

On the other hand…

If your objective is just getting your sound as good as can be and then enjoy listening to your music, then skip a few years of learning stuff you may never use again, save up some money, buy a Denon 3800 and a Dirac ART license and be done with it. I did both and spent the years, and don’t regret it because I learned a lot and enjoy this stuff, but have now arrived at my happy place with Dirac. Time is money, and our time is limited

 

[Keith_W]

What do you think is the best way to achieve meaningful audio improvement (especially bass control and overall balance) without spending a lot of money?

I think you have already answered the question yourself - DSP.

Is a RAW + manual correction approach realistic for a non expert?

I'll put it this way - none of us were experts before we began Knowledge can be acquired. Start off by following recipes. As you gain more knowledge you will come up with more things to try. Even a very simple correction with REW will get you 80-90% of the way there.

Is using a mini PC always on a reasonable solution?

Absolutely. My system is PC based. In fact you could think of my system as glorified computer speakers.

Are phone based measurements with an external mic acceptable for learning and basic correction?

For learning and very basic correction, it would be adequate. But remember that the accuracy of your correction lives and dies on whether you take proper measurements. When I started off, I used an uncorrected microphone wedged between cushions. I got very bad results. Then I duct taped my microphone to an old broom handle, and duct taped that to my tripod. It improved things by a lot. I eventually decided to spend $50 on a microphone tripod, an investment that I have never regretted.

What would you personally recommend as the best value / lowest cost path?

Get a UMIK-1 or 2, get a measurement tripod, and use your Wiim Ultra. Start by generating manual corrections for your Wiim.

 

[BetweenThePeaks]

As BJL says, how much time do you have? More important is what are your objectives?

I’ve got time — my goal is simply the best possible sound quality from my system, even if it means learning instead of buying an expensive automatic solution (which I’ve considered after reading how good it is).

My setup:
WiiM Ultra (streamer/DAC)
Audiophonics AP300-S250NC (Hypex NC252MP)
AsciLab C6B speakers (arriving mid-March)
Dayton IMM-6C measurement mic
Planning a subwoofer (likely Arendal 1961)

 

[BetweenThePeaks]

My solution: I bought a receiver with a Dirac license. Problem solved. I doubt that you can do better (or as

Which receiver did you buy?

 

[BetweenThePeaks]

buy a Denon 3800 and a Dirac ART license

My plan is to use a miniDSP DDRC-24 so Dirac Live (included in the price) can automatically correct my AsciLab C6B speakers, and then integrate the Arendal 1961 1S subwoofer manually using REW for measurements and a few PEQ adjustments.

Does this sound like a reasonable approach?

 

[voodooless]

Just use the eq of the WiiM. Post some measurements on ASR, and people will help you figure it out. You have all the tools already on order or in house. I see no reason to spend more at this point. Going the DIRAC route would mean replacing the WiiM with something else. That will be a lot more money out of pocket.

 

[BetweenThePeaks]

Just use the eq of the WiiM. Post some measurements on ASR, and people will help you figure it out. You have all the tools already on order or in house. I see no reason to spend more at this point. Going the DIRAC route would mean replacing the WiiM with something else. That will be a lot more money out of pocket.

I wouldn’t replace the WiiM. It would stay as streamer and preamp. The DDRC-24 would sit after it only for Dirac correction, with the sub integrated manually via REW. So no duplication of the source, just adding DSP to the existing chain.

 

[voodooless]

I wouldn’t replace the WiiM. It would stay as streamer and preamp. The IDRC-24 would sit after it only for Dirac correction, with the sub integrated manually via REW. So no duplication of the source, just adding DSP to the existing chain.

Then you’ve still wasted money on the WiiM Ultra. A lower tier WiiM product would have worked just as well. The DDCR is also an older generation product. The Flex that replaced it is quite a bit better measurement wise, roughly on par with the Ultra.

 

[Oddball]

It seems like we just had a couple of threads on just this topic. As BJL says, how much time do you have? More important is what are your objectives? If it’s to learn about audio and room correction and measurement techniques as an end in itself, then by all means use the step by step method. Although I would forget about spectrum rta and just use REW and go from there. That’s the gold standard and where you’ll get the most help. Which you will need.

On the other hand…

If your objective is just getting your sound as good as can be and then enjoy listening to your music, then skip a few years of learning stuff you may never use again, save up some money, buy a Denon 3800 and a Dirac ART license and be done with it. I did both and spent the years, and don’t regret it because I learned a lot and enjoy this stuff, but have now arrived at my happy place with Dirac. Time is money, and our time is limited

Absolutely agree. Same experience here. Better to cut off expensive lunches and other excessive spending to get things right in the AV world so you can really enjoy the material. Nothing you can do with 1 sub and any room correction that will match ART. Close is to use MSO/REW and spend hundreds of hours, but then time is money.

 

[90sNintendoKid]

I've been experimenting with EQ a lot for the last 3 months using A1 Evo Acoustix and Dirac ART on my Denon 3800H.

I found learning and EQing with A1 more fun and I also learnt more about EQ and REW during the process.

So much so, I may attempt a manual EQ based on OCA's latest YouTube with a Minidsp 2x4 HD.

I would say it would depend on whether you want Dirac to do all the work for you and with ART play about with support groups and levels etc.

Or go down the manual EQ rabbit hole which I am finding extremely fun.

 

[DWPress]

Skip the Android RTA bit - REW has built in RTA and very useful for MMM measurements which should help you get started right away with PEQ you can input into your WiiM!

The moving microphone method (MMM) for Dummies using REW

After getting a couple of weird results on my first MMM measurements, I went searching around the forums & YouTube for what went wrong. To save others from gathering various bits and pieces of info from a dozen sources, I decided to publish this quick write-up here. You can use it as a rough...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Get familiar with REW and taking proper measurements. As Keith said, getting results means dependable measurements - get that mic away from nearby reflections/absorbtion. He's also correct that it's a long learning process and a potential rabbit hole but it doesn't have to be to get real results. Many of us use computers for signal processing, it doesn't have to be a dedicated device, there is not a huge tax on CPU use though having plenty of RAM is helpful for multitasking.

I own DLBC (PC version) and find it frustrating more often than useful and it rarely generates anything I can't accomplish better on my own but that's after years of dabbling with DSP. I started out with a miniDSP 4x10, similar to the DDRC-24, and it's a good introduction to DSP though lacking in power to do meaningful work in the sub bass domain.

 

[Open Mind Audio]

I've done both and find both approaches worthwhile. If you have time and the inclination, by all means spend some time with REW and the DIY approach. There are some big advantages, in addition to the non-negligible aspect of cost. For example:

1. You'll gain a better understanding of your listening room and the changes you can make with physical adjustments (precise speaker and SW position, blocking reflections), and this often leads to the most satisfying changes.
   
   
2. You'll have the opportunity to make as many adjustments as you want and see what you like the best - and what you can't really notice.
   
   
3. You'll gain experience and knowledge you can apply to other audio set-ups, either your own or those of friends.
   
   
4. And then if you get DIRAC with a receiver, you'll have a greater understanding of what it's doing and your own sense of where you want to tweak.

I like and use the built-in DIRAC capabilities of my Denon AVR, and would even say I prefer using DIRAC with the home theater over trying to adjust everything manually for 9 speakers. Still, for me the adjustments from speaker positioning with the subs and the mains are the most important. I can for sure tweak those physical aspects with DIRAC but I find those parameters easier to see and tweak with REW. Also, I use REW to adjust set-ups in my office and the primary stereo room.

Big caveat: REW is not for the faint of heart. You need to be interested in learning the subject and software, and it sounds like you are.

 

[BJL]

My plan is to use a miniDSP DDRC-24 so Dirac Live (included in the price) can automatically correct my AsciLab C6B speakers, and then integrate the Arendal 1961 1S subwoofer manually using REW for measurements and a few PEQ adjustments.

Does this sound like a reasonable approach?

Not to me. I would sell the DDRC and replace it with an AVR. You can always return it if you are not happy.

I started with Dirac with a DDRC, and then a MiniDSP SHD and eventually moved an an AV Processor in one room and an AVR for my stereo system.

With all respect to the eager beaver do it yourselfers on this forum, I doubt that you will be able to do better than Dirac (25 years of team development) on your own.

Unless, of course, you enjoy expending the time and energy to tinker with REW and related software. Time means lots and lots of time. Energy means lots and lots of energy. Time and energy means less time for actual music listening.

 

[DWPress]

With all respect to the eager beaver do it yourselfers on this forum, I doubt that you will be able to do better than Dirac (25 years of team development) on your own.

This is completely incorrect. Dirac easily screws things up even if you know what you're doing. If I had to EQ a 7.2 system it would certainly be a time saver but I'd verify everything with REW to make sure, you'd be surprised.

 

[Oddball]

This is completely incorrect. Dirac easily screws things up even if you know what you're doing. If I had to EQ a 7.2 system it would certainly be a time saver but I'd verify everything with REW to make sure, you'd be surprised.

Dirac always needs REW check - just like anything else including golden priced Trinnov. But what exactly is your problem/experience? I think lots of posts above refer to ART which is relatively new addition to budget range so perhaps you did not have opportunity to experience that?

 

[krabapple]

It seems like we just had a couple of threads on just this topic.

Indeed. I'm wondering if we should petition mods for a subforum devoted just to 'room measurement and room DSP' topics. That would be helpful.

 

[DWPress]

But what exactly is your problem/experience? I think lots of posts above refer to ART which is relatively new addition to budget range so perhaps you did not have opportunity to experience that?

My problem is too much knowledge/experience perhaps. I've seen lots of goofed up Dirac plots here on ASR. There may be posts above about ART but that's not what the OP asked about is it? Also, ART is only available in AVR's and that's also not what the OP was really asking about.

 

[middlemarch]

My plan is to use a miniDSP DDRC-24 so Dirac Live (included in the price) can automatically correct my AsciLab C6B speakers, and then integrate the Arendal 1961 1S subwoofer manually using REW for measurements and a few PEQ adjustments.

Does this sound like a reasonable approach?

I think it's a reasonable approach, as far as it goes. As others have said, you've got the basis already. But you're asking for opinions/experiences as well, I think, from others who have been down this road. I have two systems, a 2.1 and a home theatre. I began the serious journey with the 2.1 and a DDRC-24 and an old Yamaha receiver as power amp.

My personal experience with DDRC-24: as always, YMMV. I had the sub. DDRC-24 does not do the sub integration, you have to do crossovers, distance manually. I used REW (first time) for this so it took me a while. As you get into REW you realize you can use AutoEQ to do the sub EQ as well (although Dirac can also do this as an integrated system). So the bass region is effectively taken care of by REW (using the filters in the miniDSP). Then, although Dirac can go full range, many, including myself, have found it better to limit it to Schroeder (300 to 500 Hz). So in my case Dirac was only really doing anything between 100 and 500Hz. Compound that with software glitches and less than stellar support from the MINIDSP folks, and my DDRC-24 was not long in service before being consigned to a drawer, where it remains. It was replaced by a used Denon x4400 using Audyssey room correction.

One mans experience, all it is. I'm sure you can find folks with better results than me.