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Dirac Live Bass Control coming to Dirac Live Stereo This YEAR!!

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AudioKC

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Double about imaging. Bass response with correct phase dramatically affects imaging.
 

armigo

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How many subs are supported in the beta version?
 
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AudioKC

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No DLBC announcements?

Beta version is available for Stereo license holders I believe.


How many subs are supported in the beta version?

I'm afraid to experiment with Dirac Processor setup now, but I assume 32 Channels - 2 for Left and Right = 30 Subs. I believe 30 Subs; number that is beyond any healthy need for subs

1673295789008.png
 
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AudioKC

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Hi there.

Some updates from my end. For office system...

TL;TR; incredible improvement for my office system

1. Low end much better controlled, less edginess and resonances, room gain gone... very very focused and tight...
2. Mains do better job in upper bass and lower midrange, after reducing bass output (Bass Control basically is an Active Cross Over to mains as well), so THD do not leak from lows to upper bass and lower midrange... I can catch difference by ear.
3. Phase is controlled better - leads to as well to cleaner/smoother transition from sub to mains ( I do not hear sub as sub at all... it's like mains are playing...) and better phase control leads to smoother bass across sub frequencies... I will check BC: Complete next week, for now it is only Upmix


System:

AMP: Aiyima A07 with changed OpAmp/updated power (about CD quality SINAD)
Sony SSCS5 (quite good with EQ for table system)
Sub: SVS SB1000PRO (fine 300W sub)
Virtual Multichannel DAC: Hidizs S9Pro + Apple Dongle USB C (SINAD about -110DB for both)

1. Requested via Support access for Bass Control (a couple weeks ago), Installed beta and activated Dirac Live Processor with my account, where Bass Control became available (see instruction below)
2. Measured only today, had to travel for a couple weeks. No problem with Dirac Live Suite, works as expected. Figured out Cross Over, Phase, impulse response, Target Curve etc...
3. I used virtual multichannel DAC for now only with one sub (I have spare second sub, will measure probably with 2 subs next week). I'm using Loopback app for Mac OS, with two different DAC (Hidizs S9Pro for mains and Apple Dongle USB C for Sub, cheap and clean, left overs from headphones...). In loopback I create 4 channels in Pass-Thru device, create Channels 1 2 3 4 for output and route these to monitors, with target DACs (for now for one sub I use only one channel, which I understand is mono that will be passed by Dirac Live Processor)

View attachment 249183

Then I selected Custom Channel Setup in Dirac Live Processor


View attachment 249185

Then I add Sub and select Channel 3 as Sub Output (next week will add second sub)

View attachment 249184


And we ready to calibrate...

These are some results, which are not to shabby...

After measurements, I exported filter and got 3 channels in Processor displaying in level meter, and Loopback demonstrated 3 channel working...

One issue that I faced, I could not use Bass Control Complete, only UpMix... probably requires two sub at least? will check it later.

View attachment 249186


p.s. Will post on 2 Subs update later.
p.p.s. Managed to enable BC: Complete.

A short update.
Measured with 2 Subs, added second DAC for the sub, simplified wire routing (with Amazon Basics Headphone jack to RCA cable for both subs).
With second sub sound became somewhat more simple to consume? Less pressure from bass? Difficult to explain, it was already incredible imaging and bass to midrange transition, now it is more natural/easy to consume (less pressure on subs to produce what they cannot produce I guess).

Deep in 45Hz is my office table, tried multiple subs positions, no help...

1673295939536.png


1673296073751.png


Interestingly, one of the subs (left sub) became time reference for the system. BTW two subs with different performance and manufacturer (SVS and ELAC subs, leftovers from systems from the past).

Left gain : -0.7 dB
Left delay : 8.2 ms

Right gain : 0.0 dB
Right delay : 8.4 ms

Subwoofer gain : -0.4 dB
Subwoofer delay : 0.0 ms

Subwoofer gain : -2.6 dB
Subwoofer delay : 1.5 ms
 

juliangst

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A short update.
Measured with 2 Subs, added second DAC for the sub, simplified wire routing (with Amazon Basics Headphone jack to RCA cable for both subs).
With second sub sound became somewhat more simple to consume? Less pressure from bass? Difficult to explain, it was already incredible imaging and bass to midrange transition, now it is more natural/easy to consume (less pressure on subs to produce what they cannot produce I guess).

Deep in 45Hz is my office table, tried multiple subs positions, no help...

View attachment 256137

View attachment 256142

Interestingly, one of the subs (left sub) became time reference for the system. BTW two subs with different performance and manufacturer (SVS and ELAC subs, leftovers from systems from the past).
Any reason why you are using two DACs for the subs?
Can't you just map two channels (3&4) into one monitoring channel as a mono signal?
 
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AudioKC

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Any reason why you are using two DACs for the subs?
Can't you just map two channels (3&4) into one monitoring channel as a mono signal?
Only cable management, I did not like that my RCA cables been connected with one end cord/channel. And Subs had one RCA open on each end. Wanted to to have all inputs driven with minimum cables and splitters...

But you are right, 2 X 2 Channel DAC is enough for L+R + 2Subs
 

DWPress

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I contacted Dirac yesterday and Flavio has already gotten back to me with instructions!

I'm considering how I might use DLBC in my current set up. I'm using a 2ch correction filter (sometimes Dirac) applied to audio before it gets to my software XO for my 3 way speakers + 2 subs. The 20-350Hz region is part of that 2ch correction filter as it is now and those 8 output channels use HangLoose Convolver to host the 8ch XO convolution filter.

My thought is to allow my existing software XO to continue to work between the woofers, mids and tweeters but remove the HP/LP filters between subs and woofers allowing DLBC to try to do it's magic with the crossover region and 2 separate subs. Digitally routing this will be an interesting feat but I'm curious how Dirac will compare to my efforts especially with the subs.

I'll report back when I have the time to devote to this soon. I do have REW files to compare against and share.
 
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theREALdotnet

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I contacted Dirac about a Bass Control beta license and they obliged promptly. I wonder what a license will cost once this is out of beta…

Setup was reasonably straight-forward. Here’s how I put it together on my Mac mini:

- installed Dirac Live Processor 1.6.16 beta
- created an aggregate audio device from a Topping D90 on one USB port and an Ultrasone NAOS on another, the D90 doing L/R and the NAOS the subwoofer
- followed Dirac’s instructions for configuring Dirac Live Processor for DLBC, using the aggregate audio device
- I’m using Element for the plumbing – input device Blackhole 2CH > Dirac Live Processor 1.6.16 plugin > output to aggregate audio device.

The downside of using an aggregate audio device and two DACs is that volume control can only be done in software. I might look into getting something like a Topping DM7 in the future, but that seems like overkill, and adds the complication of having to make TRS-RCA cables for hooking up the sub(s). I’ll probably make do with software volume control. It’s actually not much worse than trying to use the Topping remote :p

At the moment I’m using just one sub, but can’t wait to add another, given the ease of integrating it using DLBC. Previously, I fiddled a lot with positioning, phase, cross-over and volume. Now I have phase and cross-over neutered and volume on 50%, DLBC figured it all out and got it right.

I reserve subjective judgement for later when the novelty has worn off.
 

theREALdotnet

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Do you have any measurements of before/after the correction? Not an image of Dirac's hypothetical/fantasy corrected response.:)

This is how the result looks in REW (pink periodic), with Dirac enabled:
DLBC-REW.jpg


This is a pretty good match for my target curve.

Without Dirac it looks like this:
No-DLBC-REW.jpg


Sorry, I can’t show any impulse response graphs atm, I’ve been forbidden to run any further sweeps tonight :p
 

sharock

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Below 90Hz has filled in quite nicely.

Was the sub even turned on for the without dirac sweep? I thought Dirac didn't boost dips! :D

Getting quite tempted to try this beta now. Still not clear if it even works via a NAD C658 though.
 
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AudioKC

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This is how the result looks in REW (pink periodic), with Dirac enabled:
View attachment 256670

This is a pretty good match for my target curve.

Without Dirac it looks like this:
View attachment 256673

Sorry, I can’t show any impulse response graphs atm, I’ve been forbidden to run any further sweeps tonight :p

Insane accuracy.

Questions:
1. What speakers?
2. What sub?
3. How many subs?
 

abdo123

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This is how the result looks in REW (pink periodic), with Dirac enabled:
View attachment 256670

This is a pretty good match for my target curve.

Without Dirac it looks like this:
View attachment 256673

Sorry, I can’t show any impulse response graphs atm, I’ve been forbidden to run any further sweeps tonight :p

did you forgot to turn on the speakers? because that slope is STEEP.
 
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AudioKC

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did you forgot to turn on the speakers? because that slope is STEEP.
Good point. Just looked at dB levels.. 30 dB of steepness....

Is it target curve in DLBC with -10...-20...-30 dB trend line?
 
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AudioKC

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Dirac’s default curve is like -6 dB max.

Well, kind of yes and no... if you save target curve into file, you can edit it with any dB levels (using simple text editor) and later load it back.

NAME
Unnamed
DEVICENAME
Dirac Live Processor - 3162
BREAKPOINTS
0 -5.09555
0.380736 -5.09555
0.906431 -5.09555
1.63228 -5.09555
2.63448 -5.09556
4.01826 -5.09557
5.92889 -5.09564
8.56696 -5.09583
12.2094 -5.09648
17.2388 -5.09898
24.1829 -5.10802
33.7709 -5.14086
47.0095 -5.25849
65.2884 -5.63371
90.5267 -6.53983
125.374 -7.78299
173.489 -8.63723
239.924 -8.99281
331.652 -9.13035
458.305 -9.21914
633.178 -9.32815
880.787 -9.27397
1208.02 -9.4925
1668.33 -9.96287
2303.91 -10.2181
3181.47 -10.4481
4518.1 -10.4484
6336.77 -11.4496
9146.95 -11.7493
12476.5 -12.0648
14803.5 -13.2101
17099 -15.0629
18740 -16.7294
20258.6 -18.7447
24000 -18.7447
LOWLIMITHZ
13.7585
HIGHLIMITHZ
22191.7
 

abdo123

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Well, kind of yes and no... if you save target curve into file, you can edit it with any dB levels (using simple text editor) and later load it back.

NAME
Unnamed
DEVICENAME
Dirac Live Processor - 3162
BREAKPOINTS
0 -5.09555
0.380736 -5.09555
0.906431 -5.09555
1.63228 -5.09555
2.63448 -5.09556
4.01826 -5.09557
5.92889 -5.09564
8.56696 -5.09583
12.2094 -5.09648
17.2388 -5.09898
24.1829 -5.10802
33.7709 -5.14086
47.0095 -5.25849
65.2884 -5.63371
90.5267 -6.53983
125.374 -7.78299
173.489 -8.63723
239.924 -8.99281
331.652 -9.13035
458.305 -9.21914
633.178 -9.32815
880.787 -9.27397
1208.02 -9.4925
1668.33 -9.96287
2303.91 -10.2181
3181.47 -10.4481
4518.1 -10.4484
6336.77 -11.4496
9146.95 -11.7493
12476.5 -12.0648
14803.5 -13.2101
17099 -15.0629
18740 -16.7294
20258.6 -18.7447
24000 -18.7447
LOWLIMITHZ
13.7585
HIGHLIMITHZ
22191.7

That’s why i said default ;)
 

theREALdotnet

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did you forgot to turn on the speakers? because that slope is STEEP.

I think there is something about the way the Y-axis is drawn in the REW RTA window (not sure whether I chose the right unit there). During a proper sweep the slope isn’t that steep in terms of dB. I’ll to a proper REW sweep when I get a chance. I’m using the Harman+4 target curve.
 

theREALdotnet

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